in his interview with mensracing.com, adrian blincoe mentioned that villanova trains using heartrate training and that people who are interested should consult jack daniel's book on it. i am unaware that jack wrote any book about HR training. am i mistaken? does anything know anything about this. or is blincoe mixing up jack's running formula book?
No specific book on heart rate monitorinig, but a discussion of the issue pages 71-74 in Daniels' Running Formula. Basically, there are times that HR monitor can be useful (if you understand the limitations). The one thing a heart rate monitor tells you is how fast your heart is beating. If that's what you want to know then that's the way to go.
jtupper wrote:
Basically, there are times that HR monitor can be useful (if you understand the limitations).
Daniels' Running Formula has been been my training mainstay for several years. While reading the recent threads initiated by Hadd, I've wondered: Is his approach of working "through" sub-threshold intensities consistent with Daniels' emphasis on avoiding "quality junk"? It seems to me that the two are consistent, but I'm not certain.
My use of "quality junk mileage" is an over-simplification of the issue. Actually marathon-pace running is a very useful intensity for some runners and falls between easy and threshold pace. Further, longer steady tempo runs, can be beneficial (particularly mentally) even though they drop out of true threshold pace.
Daniels actually DID write another book a while ago, having to do with heart-rate.
Chris, jtupper is Jack Daniels.
inquiring red dragon wrote:
Chris, jtupper is Jack Daniels.
I know, i should've just replied to the other guy's post.....i just clicked reply on the most recent one, which just happened to be jack-o.
I've used Daniels Running Formula as a guideline for training and really like the intensity/duration of the T and I paces for 5K-15K racing, as well as the general set-up of the whole cycle. Unfortunately I have ignored my overall aerobic base to such an extent that six weeks just doesn't cut it for me. (This is something I am tackling this spring/summer.) In the past I've found the E/L pace to be a little too quick on some days. Would you predict, as I would expect, that this would be less and less the case with a greater base? Do you think coach Daniels would agree with lengthy periods of mostly base training with nothing more than strides, occasional hills and longish MP runs?
Thanks for any thoughts you might have on this.
I think he would agree. Always useful to get in more base as long as you don't get sloppy with your mechanics
Thanks for your willingness to share your knowledge here. I know that answer is probably in the book but it has been too long since I've read all the way through it.
If you are looking for a more in depth read on HR, checkout www.coachbenson.com. You'll find more than you want to know about HR there. Clearly, he's been doing HR for awhile.
I agree that the whole Daniels' paces thing is incredibly useful But the one thing that's always bothered me about it is the "easy" pace. I've got current race times which put my VDOT around 63 or 64. Yet there is nothing "easy" about the recommended easy pace for that VDOT (6:50 or 6:45). I can run my runs at that pace but is sure isn't what I would call "easy"
And to tie that back in with the original topic of this thread (HR Training) my heart rate monitor agrees with me on that. When I'm running that pace, I'm working pretty hard.
Why is the "easy" pace so hard? Is there anyone else out there who uses Daniels who finds this to be true?
I do, Joe. There were a few others on one of the Hadd threads who were saying the same thing (maybe it was you.) I'm thinking that with an extended period of base and pressing up the LT a la Hadd, those E paces will feel easy on some days, although I'd wager there will still be those days when it's just too tough.
I'll need to reread 'the Formula,' but I think the master would agree that you need to remember the purpose of easy days and not stress out too much about pace so long as the mechanics are sound.
I do agree with you. Easy should be comfortable. The key is top avoid real sloppy easy stuff, but let the day determine what easy really is
JD is the most overrated slouch ever. I'm serious.
Heart rate and training paces correlate well when one accounts for fatigue and the impact of recent racing and training on functional capacity. If you raced a 5k on Saturday in 16:20 and Daniel's book says that your easy day training pace is 6:50 per mile, then it means that your easy day pace on Saturday is that pace, not other days when you are more tired / drained. On the Sunday, one day after you race, do you think you can repeat your 16:20? Probably not, so, therefore, your pace on the next day or any days thereafter where you have not recovered would be slower than 6:50 per mile in order to optimize your training. There are some straightforward ways to correlate heart rate with training paces prescribed by Jack. Let me know if you are interested. Tom
Jack, are there certain heart rates that should be hit at your paces or just go by paces? Like 70% for easy?