In the CIF (California HS), why do the San Francisco and Oakland sections still exist? Wouldn't they be better served joining one of the larger neighboring sections, i.e. Central Coast, North Coast, or Sac-Joaquin sections?
Looking at the CIF state meet Performance Lists, the SFS and OS are very weak in the performances and seem to be taking away valuable spots in the CIF State Meet:
I've somehow found myself on the CIF track and field advisory committee. I'm sure if I brought up section restructuring I'd be met with stone cold silence.
Southern Section has 600 schools and Oakland Section has 6.
I do think there is basically no reason for them to exist given they are both like <20 schools vs basically 100+ for every other section.
Somewhat off topic, but I am a bit confused about the abbreviations. I am seeing both OK for Oakland Tech schools and then one instance of OS appearing in the list. Not sure why CIF can't proof read their own document. Also a few other typos like random capital letters for sections.
There is this article from 15 years ago about upholding tradition, so it seems it's just a holdover of old times.
Michael Moore, the Oakland Athletic League's commissioner, is in charge of one of the oldest high school sports organizations in the state—but it's also the smallest, and under pressure to combine with larger sections. The le...
Out of their ~45 combined entries, I'd say like 5 would have been able to qualify if they had to go through the North Coast section after skimming through the results. Most of them are hilariously dead last by large margins or in the bottom 2-3 people.
San Francisco to Sacramento is a long trek and Friday evening traffic is brutal. A traffic accident could result in a no show.
That's a meh argument at best. The SS schools have to cover large distances because of weird borders because for some reason they aren't broken up. Like some schools have to travel basically from Mammoth down to Moorpark for SS finals. That's a 5 hour drive at best. And then some SS schools have to deal with LA traffic anyway which can be just as bad as San Francisco traffic.
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If you call it "Cali" I know you are a troll or a bot
San Francisco to Sacramento is a long trek and Friday evening traffic is brutal. A traffic accident could result in a no show.
The San Francisco public schools, under any reasonable re-alignment, would fold into the CCS, along with the San Francisco private schools. Then they'd have to drive down the Peninsula instead.
In the sport of wrestling, not only has the SF section never produced a state champion, it's never produced anyone who's EVER won a match in the state tournament.
San Francisco to Sacramento is a long trek and Friday evening traffic is brutal. A traffic accident could result in a no show.
The San Francisco public schools, under any reasonable re-alignment, would fold into the CCS, along with the San Francisco private schools. Then they'd have to drive down the Peninsula instead.
The largest San Francisco private schools (Catholic) -- St Ignatius, Sacred Heart Cathedral, Riordan -- already compete in the CCS, so yes.
Merge LA section into the Southern Section, then split that into 3rds. Create an Inland Empire Section, LA Metro Section, and South Coast Section. Leave San Diego Section the way it is, maybe a few of the most southern, Southern Section teams could move into the SD section to balance out the numbers.
Above:
SF public schools merge into CCS
Oakland public schools merge into the NCS
Sac Joaquin section splits, with the Sacramento area schools moving into the Northern Section and the Stockton to Merced schools joining the Central Section.
Call the two new sections the Sacramento Section and the San Joaquin Section, because they would lie respectively, in those two valleys (for the most part)
For team sports, this gives you a nice 8 team bracket for state tournaments
For individual sports, you're going to get pretty close to parity in section distribution. 57% of the population of CA is below the grapevine, so there'd be a little more gravity in the 4 southern sections. That could easily be addressed with floating at large berths for cross country (as we currently do) and at large standards for track, swimming (which already exist in track...not sure about swimming)
The reason this will never happen is that CIF is a Federation, which means that it is governed by the votes of its 10 section representatives, who would probably never vote to disband their own sections.
San Francisco to Sacramento is a long trek and Friday evening traffic is brutal. A traffic accident could result in a no show.
That's a meh argument at best. The SS schools have to cover large distances because of weird borders because for some reason they aren't broken up. Like some schools have to travel basically from Mammoth down to Moorpark for SS finals. That's a 5 hour drive at best. And then some SS schools have to deal with LA traffic anyway which can be just as bad as San Francisco traffic.
A difference is that on 80, there’s no plan B, in the event of an accident. The Sacramento area is not like L.A.’s, and it would be unfair to put such a traveling burden on maybe 25% of the schools. Even without any accidents, it would be a 4 hour round trip from the Bay Area compared to an hour for a Sac area schools.
That's a meh argument at best. The SS schools have to cover large distances because of weird borders because for some reason they aren't broken up. Like some schools have to travel basically from Mammoth down to Moorpark for SS finals. That's a 5 hour drive at best. And then some SS schools have to deal with LA traffic anyway which can be just as bad as San Francisco traffic.
A difference is that on 80, there’s no plan B, in the event of an accident. The Sacramento area is not like L.A.’s, and it would be unfair to put such a traveling burden on maybe 25% of the schools. Even without any accidents, it would be a 4 hour round trip from the Bay Area compared to an hour for a Sac area schools.
Unfair? I'm guessing you don't know anything about any of the other Sections.
San Francisco to Sacramento is a long trek and Friday evening traffic is brutal. A traffic accident could result in a no show.
The San Francisco public schools, under any reasonable re-alignment, would fold into the CCS, along with the San Francisco private schools. Then they'd have to drive down the Peninsula instead.
Maybe, but the OP did suggest having the Bay Area schools join the Sac-Joaquin section.
A difference is that on 80, there’s no plan B, in the event of an accident. The Sacramento area is not like L.A.’s, and it would be unfair to put such a traveling burden on maybe 25% of the schools. Even without any accidents, it would be a 4 hour round trip from the Bay Area compared to an hour for a Sac area schools.
Unfair? I'm guessing you don't know anything about any of the other Sections.
And guessing that he doesn't realize that the SF schools wouldn't join the SJ Section
Plus, the OP only said "Surrounding Sections" He shouldn't have included the SJ section in with NCS and CCS. It surrounds neither Oakland nor San Francisco
This post was edited 3 minutes after it was posted.
Reason provided:
Fixed a mistake
That drive happens all the time. Planning is important. Have you seen the other sections?
Some kids in the Southern Section drive farther to get to their League Meet!
Merging the Bay Area schools into the the Sac-Joaquin section would, affect a lot of people. Sacramento is a long trip for Merced and South Lake Tahoe but nothing can be done about it.
Some kids in the Southern Section drive farther to get to their League Meet!
Merging the Bay Area schools into the the Sac-Joaquin section would, affect a lot of people. Sacramento is a long trip for Merced and South Lake Tahoe but nothing can be done about it.
Did someone say all meets would be in Sacramento? It would work the other way as well. My team goes to meets all over the State so not sure how this would change that. One extra trip further outside our area isn't that big of a deal.
Merge LA section into the Southern Section, then split that into 3rds. Create an Inland Empire Section, LA Metro Section, and South Coast Section. Leave San Diego Section the way it is, maybe a few of the most southern, Southern Section teams could move into the SD section to balance out the numbers.
Above:
SF public schools merge into CCS
Oakland public schools merge into the NCS
Sac Joaquin section splits, with the Sacramento area schools moving into the Northern Section and the Stockton to Merced schools joining the Central Section.
Call the two new sections the Sacramento Section and the San Joaquin Section, because they would lie respectively, in those two valleys (for the most part)
For team sports, this gives you a nice 8 team bracket for state tournaments
For individual sports, you're going to get pretty close to parity in section distribution. 57% of the population of CA is below the grapevine, so there'd be a little more gravity in the 4 southern sections. That could easily be addressed with floating at large berths for cross country (as we currently do) and at large standards for track, swimming (which already exist in track...not sure about swimming)
The reason this will never happen is that CIF is a Federation, which means that it is governed by the votes of its 10 section representatives, who would probably never vote to disband their own sections.
What about central section?
Also, as this user mentioned, it's just politics. Any coach in California can vouch for this. California, more so than any other state in my opinion, is infested with traditionalist "oldheads" who insist on doing things the way they have always been done "because thats how how things have always been". I'm a coach in CCS and I can tell you first-hand that it is a problem at every level. The league i'm in had a whole host of issues during the season and at the post-season meeting half the coaches (all above the age of 60) didn't change the bylaws because they didn't feel like it and just wanted to maintain tradition.
I'm probably gonna move to another state eventually. California track and field is amazing but they don't accept people who want to change things for the better in this state. I honestly have 0 clue how the 4x800 ever got added to the postseason considering these conditions.
The biggest, most important, and honestly EASIEST change that needs to be made to CIF T&F is a change to the event schedule. Having the 3200, 4x800 and 4x400 next to each other is the stupidest thing ever, but i'll be shocked to see that change in the next decade.
I'm with you in that I don't know how we got the 4x800. That's a big win for those that like a little change to get with the times.
The change I would like to see (not sure how this happens) is stop making kids choose between their graduation and the State meet. Get the schedule fixed, move it up, move it back, I don't care.
