Jeff Nelson: How good was he?

He also ran 8:42 indoor. I don't believe he focused too much on the Mile, but I think he ran a 4:06 DMR split in HS.

I think if he would've pulled a Webb & went back to his HS coach he would've done alright.

He was an amazing young talent!

I was a class of '79 CIF Southern Section runner myself, and had the opportunity to toe the line with him at the CA State Meet 2-mile that year. To make a long story short, he just abused the rest of us! Despite a smattering of sub-9:00 PRs in the field, Jeff run something like a 13 or 14-second negative split during his second mile and completely outclassed the "mere mortals" in the race.

I have often wondered just how good he could have become if he had managed to fit in a little bit better with Dellinger's crew.

You might like this link on Nelson. Enjoy!

It should be obvious how good he was...8;36.

Perhaps a better question would be what could HSers Virgin, Lindgren, Webb or Ryun have run in an open outdoor two mile race.

Virgin's 1973 8;40.9 is still the fastest in a US HS only race and it was 95 degrees that day. The second placer ran 8;56. A week or two later, he ran 8;56 an hour after a 4;08 mile and said there was no comparison between the two races.

Lindgren's 8;40 indoors was on a tight 11 lap/mile board track.

Yeah the guy was very beastly.

http://www.cs.uml.edu/~phoffman/nats/gods1/nelson.htm

Check that out, its pretty good.

Run5k wrote:

I have often wondered just how good he could have become if he had managed to fit in a little bit better with Dellinger's crew.

How true. He was so intense that he blasted past Alberto Salazar at the finish of one of his first Oregon practices. He was severely reprimanded by several runners and told something to the effect of: "Freshman don't beat seniors, ever." I guess he just didn't fit in, or he thought he didn't need to fit in. Too bad, Jeff is one of my favorite all-time prep runners.

Can you imagine just hanging with Salazar when he was a sr. and you are just a frosh? That is amazing. Amazing. Did I say amazing? Saladbar was a big bad ass on the int'l scene as a sr.

I was in that state 2mile as well, along with many other races, and I agree with the above poster in seeing those negative splits. We would all helplessly wait for him to make his move and when he did, he accelerated like we were standing still. He won the State meet 2 mile in '79 with a 8:47, which was almost 10 seconds ahead of 2nd place, on a very soft dirt track. Lane one was like a sand pit actually. (The following year Hughes stadium installed an all-weather track). It was also a very hot day, I’m guessing 80 degrees at the time we ran.

I got to know Jeff a little in 1978-79 and I remembered one thing that was odd. Most top runners know who the other top competition is and what their best times are. Jeff was oblivious to all of this. It just didn’t matter too much to him. He passion was Rock & Roll music and I believe he even played the guitar. Running seemed to be something fun for him to do, at the time, but not a real passion. Most don’t know this but one of Jeff’s teammates was Lin Whatcott, a 9:01 2-miler that year. (A good teammate for him to train with)

Another often talked about story was the time Jeff crushed the hilly Mt. Sac Invitational course record with a time of 14:32 for 3miles. (they have since altered the course and I have read that the new course is about 15-18 seconds faster). If Mt. Sac made adjustments for this in their record books, he would still hold this course record after 27 years, which isn’t surprising. What is even more impressive is that he won by nearly 30 seconds in a heavily weighted field. 2nd place was Paul Medvin in 14:58 (a 4:05 miler) and 3rd was Chuck Assuma in 15:02 (a 8:52 2 miler and past 2mile state champ) and 4th was Jeff Hess from So. Oregon in 15:15 (I believe he still holds the national HS 3000 steeple record in 9:08). Nelson looked like he was just cruising when he won this race! If pushed, who knows what he could have run.

Too bad he never ran a 5K on the track in a good field. If he had I think his record would still be standing.

The HS steeple record is like 8:50, someone ran 9:06 last year. 13:37 for Nelson as good as he was would have been no cake walk. Your making it sound like he would have run 13:30 and i just dont he would have. Rupp is probably HS's best time trialer ever.

Rupp better than Nelson as a High Schooler???....Who are you kidding my friend?? Nelson whould have spanked the hell out of Rupp!

Rupp's best 2 mile wasnt even close to Nelson's. And as for

Rupp's 8:03.67 3000m National record that he ran in June after he graduated; what does this convert to a 2mile?

Depending on the converter you use it is probably 8:40-8:41??

Rupp barely got 2nd at Footlocker and there were about 4 guys within 5 seconds of first. In 1979 Nelson was so far ahead of any other high schooler in the country it was pathetic! ( and there were many great runners then!)

Wipe the drool from your face and throw away that "STOP RUPP" tee shirt. Rupp was good but Nelson was better.

I don't think the statement had ne thing to do with Rupp being "better" than Nelson. It simply stated that Rupp was the best hs "time-trialer"

Dipper123 wrote:

Yeah the guy was very beastly.

http://www.cs.uml.edu/~phoffman/nats/gods1/nelson.htm

Check that out, its pretty good.

Interesting article. Especially about how POORLY he was treated at Oregon. Trying to force him to run a meet with a stress fracture is ludicrous. Do they still treat their runners this way? Do most colleges do this?

relax buddy wrote:

I don't think the statement had ne thing to do with Rupp being "better" than Nelson. It simply stated that Rupp was the best hs "time-trialer"

WHat does the best "time-trialer" mean?? To me this means that Rupp ran the fastest work outs while his coach was timing him. Or....is there an official High School "time-trial" record book of non-official races?? WTF??

You choose to believe Jeff Nelson, when many in the running community know that he showed no respect to anyone at Oregon, the athletes, or the coaches. The story that is told in that article is Jeff Nelson's version. He blamed Oregon for ruining his running career, for taking the fun out of running, and everything else. His time at Oregon showed what he was really about, and right from the get go, he did not talk much with his teammates, or care to show respect to the team leaders. There was a strict system at Oregon, and it was a system that worked. Jeff Nelson never showed any interest in following that system, and he became jeered by his team. Don't feel sorry for this man. Steve Prefontaine was scolded for doing the very same thing when he first arrived at Oregon, but he didnt whine about it and say that Oregon was ruining what he was all about. I don't care what you think of Jeff Nelson. Personally, I think he tried to use his college as the scapegoat for his own ego. But Oregon didn't have the success they had because they ran their runners injured, and forced them to fight through it by racing. That is part of Jeff's blaming them for the fall of his running career. Sorry, not buying it.

Great... now we have two unsubstantiated sides to the same story.

Rupp's 5k was worth about 8:30 for 2 miles. By time alone, Rupp was the stronger runner, although I think Nelson's other accomplishments more than make up for that. But saying "Nelson would have spanked the hell out of Rupp" is just wrong, look at what Withrow, Kiptoo and McDougal accomplished in their freshman years of college. That could have been one of the most loaded high school XC fields ever.

Translation: He didn't take any shit from the seniors or stay behind them when they expected him to.

I've been around that sort of "system". It is is a pecking order designed to make untalented seniors feel superior to supremely talented freshmen. I'm sure Prefontaine didn't whine about the "system" either but then again, he wasn't ever told to run on a stress fracture, was he? By all accounts, he sure as hell didn't take any shit from seniors.

Please, share with us details of this "system", your place in it, and how Jeff Nelson didn't follow it.

He was there. Let's hear your "inside story"

[quote]I do run run run wrote:

"You choose to believe Jeff Nelson, when many in the running community know that he showed no respect to anyone at Oregon, the athletes, or the coaches. "

What running community are you talking about? I live in Eugene back then, and it was nothing like that.

Did you know Jeff or were you on the team at Oregon? If not, then I guess this is just speculation on your part.

Here is my speculation: I knew Jeff well enough to know that he wasn’t cocky and did not have a big ego. If anything it was the opposite. He was quite & reserved and even a bit shy. People may have taken this for being cocky because of what he accomplished. I don’t know what happened in Oregon but my guess is that he was pretty intimidated with his new teammates and this is the reason he didn’t talk much....what high school freshman wouldn’t be intimidate? Plus he was a quiet guy to begin with. Maybe his new teammates did not befriend him out of jealousy of his high school accomplishments?? Salazar & Chapa were probably licking their chops at the opportunity to grind “the best distance recruit in history” in workouts and show him who was Boss! Jeff even said it was like being thrown to the wolves.

I’m guessing Nelson would have done better in a program similar to what Josh McDougal was in, where it isn’t such a contrast to his high school program. This would have given him a better environment to evolve in as opposed to being thrown in with World class runners and being expected to keep up with them.