Are people into timeshares dumb? how are these things legal?

I was just speaking with my son about this today. You can buy a "used" worldmark account with 20,000 points for around $2,000. Maintenance fees are probably around $2,000/yr. This allows you to book 2 weeks in Hawaii, Marina Dunes, Yellowstone, etc. Additionally, you could rent 40,000 more points for around $3,000. At this point, you're into it for around $7,000 and you can book 6 weeks. It's competitive, but if you book 6 good weeks, you can rent them on redbook for around $1750/wk for a total of around $10,500. You'd make $3500 in year one. Year 2, you've already got the timeshare paid for, so your profits would be around $5,000... Not bad.

Having said that, most timeshares are, indeed, shiite.

If you like going to the same place each year they can be a good deal. It can workout good for some people. Some people like seeing the same people each year too.

most people don’t want to go to the same place each year. they. End up paying more in maintenance fees each year than it is worth it.

i would be willing to bet if you did this for 10 years, you will be disappoint with the profits. If it was that easy to make 3k off a 7k investment, the demand for the product would be a lot higher.

Do you know who like a good sales presentation? Salesmen and maybe sales managers.

I always knew timeshares were sort of a scam, or at least that's what TV taught me as a child. Like you sit in a presentation, get trapped, get suckered into a bad deal. Southpark? But my family friend's had one. They went skiing a couple times a year with their friends. They were very smart, affluent people, that didn't strike me as the kind to fall for that sort of thing.

So, I think they can be a good deal if you know what you're doing.

Most timeshares allow you to swap your place and time with others, so you aren't locked into going to the same place.

We have a timeshare in Cancun, but have only stayed there 4 times over 20 years. We use RCI to swap and book other places, like Italy, Florida, ski trips in Vermont. You really can go anywhere at anytime but need to book popular places in advance.

We also let family and friends use it and then they pay us the maintenance fee.

We got ours for like $7k over 20 years ago and it has worked out really good for us. But prices we see at places now often seem way too high and not worth it. I think we got a good deal then, but don't think I'd buy one today at prices I've seen.

LOL. This site in a nutshell... You're pretty sure you're right, so you say something else is wrong and down vote it with no real knowledge.

Uh, some people do this and make a living off of it. They're called "mega renters" and someone actually did a dissertation on it. It's from 2012, so there have been changes, but the game still exists.

https://digitalscholarship.unlv.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=2720&context=thesesdissertations

Again though, most timeshares are shiite though.

This. My dad in law did the same except got his share for 600$ from people trying to off load. Timeshare can be pretty common sense if its right for you. Being willing to trade within RCI, knowing you like to go back to the same place every year...all make it a lot more attractive. And always buy low.

Obviously if you want to get a timeshare you buy it off someone in the reselll market.

Timeshares use misleading info and high pressure sales to make people sign up.

I encountered this when I was promised $1000 just for attending a presentation. As a new grad I could not resist the $1000. So I drove two hours to attend. The sales pitch was intense and it was one on one. More than an hour. After I refused, the sales guy became very insulting. We almost got into a brawl. I wanted to punch him in the face. Suffice to say, I did not get the $1000. It was a ruse. But at least they paid for my gasoline.

So how many tens of million are they all worth? With 30-50% annual return, you can leverage yourself to the hilt and you should get there pretty darn quickly.

All of this stuff sounds great when looking from the outside. How many real estate seminars have you seen that talk about getting rich. How many people do you know that have done it?

Eh. I'm kinda kicking the tires on doing a proof of concept, but I'm not sure if it's worth my time... I have a pretty cush job and don't see myself trying to make this into a career, but it would be interesting to see if I could make enough to pay for my timeshare and keep it yearly for "free".

I do have a "used" timeshare and have definitely benefited from it in that I enjoy the 2 bedrooms - 2 bathrooms - kitchen thing with 3 kids and their friends. I just enjoy the separation that comes with it and it's cheaper than VRBOs, which I've also used quite a bit over the past few years. Having said all of this, I didn't pay much for the timeshare and am totally flexible in the summer to plan my vacations on when I'm able to book the property as I'm not always able to get it the first try.

I did rent points for next summer and at this point I plan on using them for myself. However, maybe I'll try it the year after that, schedule send myself an email reminder, and update this thread with the actual numbers... I hope you can all sleep for the next few years awaiting my update!

I've never been to a real estate seminar, but I know at least a half dozen people that have gotten "rich" in real estate, for sure. Obviously, "rich" is a subjective term, but I'm defining it as $3M+ for this thread.

I'd imagine that there are structural issues that preclude one from scaling up too large. For instance, the value creation in this plan is that you can turn points that are essentially worthless to many because they're not good at booking the prime locations during the good time of the year into actual reservations. Well, you can probably only do that once a day at most because the rest of the stock will be gone when you go to book the second room. Also, this probably isn't as strong year-round as I imagine there is a vacation bias of holidays and summer. So, positioning yourself to utilize this plan in the middle of October probably isn't helpful.

Additionally, there is built in competition between general owners using it for themselves and other mega-users.

Finally, I've never done this, but it sounds like it's a cat and mouse game with the properties and timeshare companies in terms of updating rules, changing strategies, etc. Kind of like what's happening in VRBOs at the moment with increased competition and many locales beginning/updating regulations for short-term rentals.

To your point, if there's such a large equilibrium, one would expect it to close quickly. I'm not sure there's room for more than a few large players and some regular joe's making some hobby money.

In the end though, some people are 100% profiting from timeshares. Way, way more are getting killed though, which I why I keep ending with "most timeshares are, indeed, shiite".

I believe there was probably a time when it was akin to owning a condo and probably pretty easy to make money, but timeshare places saw people making money and they wanted to be the ones making that money so they tweaked the programs to points or whatever, then people adapted to that so they tweaked it to more dynamic pricing, upped the cost on points, added all kinds or rules and fees to points transfer, increased annual fees etc.

At this point it's pretty predatory, at one point it was probably just an iffy investment until vacation costs/certain land values skyrocketed and some owners were making a killing and the companies had to restore balance.

I've also attended a timeshare presentation because I wanted to vacation in the area.

Before going to the meeting I found the resell price ranges from people willing to sell the timeshares they'd bought. (It turned out to be 50-70% less than what the "new" timeshares were selling for.)

Second, I knew that every possible objection would have a scripted, high pressure sales technique to counter it... so I NEVER offered a reason for my objection. I just sat quietly and when pressed for an objection, I just said, "I'm NOT THE LEAST BIT interested." ... and then I shut up.

After repeating that a few times, the "nice" guy gave up. He called over the big gun... the guy "authorized" to give me an even better deal. I just repeated my line.

He asked another way. I just responded with my same line, looked him in the eye and added, "Your time would be better spent talking to a prospect you have a chance to close." And then I looked away and ignored him. The use of the words prospect and close let him know that I was trained in salesmanship.

The guy and the pro left. My wife and I wound up sitting alone for the last half hour... and then we enjoyed our vacation.

This tactic works in many situations in life. Never give excuses or reasons why you don't want to do something. Just say no. Period.

This is probably the hardest I can remember having a mic dunked on me. Well done! hahaha