I know some of you (like Potro desbocado) have a good knowledge about the spanish coach Luis del Aguila. He had great results with recreative and master runners despite no fancy training.
He works around easy moderate mileage at aerobic threshold + 1 tempo session (20-40' at HM pace +/- 1 interval session (6-8x1k at 10k pace) or another tempo session. He puts a lot emphasis in strength training as well especially for 40yo+ runners.
Could somebody give some more details about workout and mileage progression ? Also easy pace seems to be more towards moderate and in the higher range (10k pace + 1'-1'15/km) or am I wrong ? Is it based on HR as well ? Any idea about his marathon training ?
What would be a sample week for a hobbyjogger running ~6h/week ?
I know some of you (like Potro desbocado) have a good knowledge about the spanish coach Luis del Aguila. He had great results with recreative and master runners despite no fancy training.
He works around easy moderate mileage at aerobic threshold + 1 tempo session (20-40' at HM pace +/- 1 interval session (6-8x1k at 10k pace) or another tempo session. He puts a lot emphasis in strength training as well especially for 40yo+ runners.
Could somebody give some more details about workout and mileage progression ? Also easy pace seems to be more towards moderate and in the higher range (10k pace + 1'-1'15/km) or am I wrong ? Is it based on HR as well ? Any idea about his marathon training ?
What would be a sample week for a hobbyjogger running ~6h/week ?
In mileage there is no progression as such throughout the season, it is practically linear, it is the maximum that the athlete can manage at the moment without getting injured and that he is able to assimilate taking into account the circumstances that surround him, since be it family or work, for example. Yes, there is an increase in it over time, from season to season, it is easy to observe by visiting the Strava profile of Miguel del Pozo, pupil of Luis de Águila.
Luis says that from experience and data collection, the extensive running pace for most athletes is the current 10K pace plus 1'15"/Km as very fast, and assuming it is on a flat course. Miguel del Pozo He usually performs his easy runs on uneven routes at a pace of 4:30/Km or slower, sometimes at 5:00/Km. He performs a lactate test on some athletes and indicates rhythms and heart rate, but there are a video on Youtube that shows the percentage of time by zones, 50-60% of the time they remain in Z1 and 10-20% of the time in Z2, adding up to 70% of the time in total. Between Z3 and Z4 it adds up to 25 %, spending more time in Z3 if it is marathon preparation 15%/10%.
A typical week looks like this:
- Easy run weekdays. - Saturday is a day of quality or intensity training at a pace that Luis calls controlled, current 10K pace + 15"-20". About half marathon or marathon pace. - Sunday long run.
Miguel del Pozo usually competes in 5K, 10K and HM. In the marathon he has a mark of 2h 44' from 2013, but I am sure that currently he would be capable of approximately 2h 20'. He ran 2' faster than David Palomo del Rosario in HM Valencia and David later achieved 2h 23' in the Valencia and Seville marathon.
Miguel del Pozo Álvarez is a runner from Spain. Join Strava to track your activities, analyze your performance, and follow friends. Strava members can plan routes, participate in motivating challenges, and join clubs. Get sta...
There is another athlete known to Luis del Águila called Juan José Crespo Rincón with a time of 2h 27' in the marathon, but in this case he does not have Strava, however, there is some information about his training in some seasons that he himself has shared through from Facebook or blog.
There is also an athlete named Juan Bueno Losada who trains in a similar way and this year he has achieved 2h 19' in the marathon, his brother Roberto Bueno Losada also has 2h 19' in the marathon, however, I believe that they are not trained by Luis.
Juan Bueno losada is a runner from Spain. Join Strava to track your activities, analyze your performance, and follow friends. Strava members can plan routes, participate in motivating challenges, and join clubs. Get started b...
I hope I have helped you with all this information. If you want more information, you can visit Luis's YouTube channel and put the subtitles translated into English in case you don't know Spanish
Fisiología del Ejercicio, Dr. Bienvenidos al apasionante mundo de la fuerza. Correr sin lesión y sin dolor es el objetivo. El entrenamiento de fuerza adecuado y correcto es la herramienta.
Quick update as I'm still training this way and progressing very well (just broke 34') with only 1 threshold session/week. Wondering if I need to include a 2nd weekly session.
Potro desbocado, you mentionned in another thread an older guy with a strong progression from high 37' to mid 34' over 7 months after injury with a training very similar to Luis.
Do you have some news about his recent progress (or maybe a Strava to follow) ? Thanks ;-)
What PB did you have before and what PB have you achieved now?
Luis's main motto is "do the minimum necessary to create adaptations or improvements" and "without health there is no performance." This translates into doing just what is necessary to improve, staying rested or relatively rested, minimizing the risk of injury (health). It is already known that having to stop for 1 or 2 months to recover from an injury sets you back a lot, even Sometimes it is better to progress slowly on the side of safety.
The above does not mean that you cannot include a second session and try to speed things up a little, this is not black and white, one of the reasons why Miguel del Pozo does not do more threshold sessions is because he is a person prone to to the injuries, he has told me personally. When he has tried it he has ended up injured, doing it this way allows him to stay healthy and have continuity.
My recommendation, if you are not in a hurry and continue to progress in this way, keep it. If you want to try to speed things up, include a second session gradually and cautiously.
Later I will answer you in another message about the boy I have been training until recently. He is currently 21 years old, and he is among the top 20 finishers in Spain in the 5K road race in the under 23 category with 15:50, approximately equivalent to 32:30 in the 10K.
My PB was 34'52 and I've been plateauing for almost 2 years with very irregular results. My training was more polarized but even with very easy days, with hindsight I did not recover enough and benefit from hard sessions. No injury but a bit overtrained I guess.
I tried also the modified norwegian approach with 3 weekly subT sessions but ending overtrained after few weeks.
Just ran 33'43 after almost 3 months of the schedule mentionned above. Only 1 weekly threshold session @~HM pace progressing from 6k to 10k over 8 weeks before adjusting intensity. First I was trying to run according HR threshold zone (85-90% HRmax) but some days HR didn't match RPE at all so sticked with pace in normal conditions. Easy days are @HM pace+1'/km or ~75% HRmax. I won't probably risk it with adding a 2nd session. Already quite happy with the results.
Thanks for your advices and for sharing the progress of your athlete.
I believe that maintaining it is the smartest thing if you are doing well, more is not always more or better. When you hit a plateau, it's time to experiment with other things.
The boy's typical training week has been as follows:
- Monday: 60' easy
- Tuesday: 20' easy + 45' @ M pace + 10' easy
- Wednesday: 60' easy
- Thursday: 60' easy
- Friday: 20' easy + 45' @ M pace + 10' easy
- Saturday: long run
- Free Sunday
If you had competition that week, it was as follows:
I also want to say that before all that, we simply focused on increasing weekly time at an easy pace. Subsequently, he did an incremental field test to estimate the anaerobic threshold with a result of HR max 200 and anaerobic threshold between 180 and 185 bpm (later confirmed in a 15K competition in which he was able to run at a pace of 3:30 and 185 bpm ). So the red line was 180 wpm, I couldn't go over it except at the end of the session by 1 or 2 wpm, but preferably not over.
When he started with me, his estimated marathon pace was 4:05, and he progressed to 3:40.
Currently he has taken some time because, although having improved in 3K, 5K, and 10K, he has not done so in 800 and 1,500 (he has stayed very close), so he has become demotivated because he expected more. He only ran an 800 and a 1,500, he has not had patience, if he had, as the weeks went by he would have surpassed his personal bests, since I changed the training scheme focused on those distances and had accumulated a good aerobic base during the months previous.
I have few more questions if you don't mind. For easy pace, do you set a specific pace (HM pace+1'/km) or a specific HR or RPE ?
From what I see with Miguel del Pozo there's almost no change in his training when he's preparing for 5k or for HM. But when it comes to marathon build-up what would be your advices/adaptations in the schedule ?
Juan Bueno Losada seems to run a little longer and harder during long runs (but still under aerobic threshold) and to do a bit more volume during threshold session (up to 2x10km, still at M pace or slightly slower). His training is pretty simple but very effective considering volume and intensity.
Para intensidades no me gusta centrarme en una sola métrica, prefiero cruzar datos y tener en cuenta cada una de ellas para estar más seguro de que es el punto correcto. Entonces, para facilitar el ritmo, las dos métricas más importantes para mí son el RPE y la FC promedio y máxima para la sesión. El RPE debe ser 1-2, y no más de 3 al final de la sesión, es decir, al menos el 80% de la sesión debe ser RPE 1-2. La FC media debe rondar el 70% de la FC máxima, intentando no superar el 75% de la FC máxima. Normalmente, esto se traduce en un ritmo de 10K + 1'30" o menos. Y si nos fijamos en Miguel del Pozo, sus carreras fáciles rondan las 4:30 o menos, compitiendo en 10K a un ritmo de entre 3:00 y 3:05. Miguel del Pozo no compite en Maratón, compite en las distancias 5K, 10K y HM. Sé que hace años sí corrió algunas, pero en ese momento no estaba en la forma que ha estado en los últimos años. Sin embargo, por lo que Luis del Águila comenta en vídeos, él haría algo similar con ligeras modificaciones. Que yo sepa, Juan Bueno Losada no es entrenado por Luis del Águila, pero sin duda usa el mismo sistema, y no lo es. le va muy mal, ya que en el maratón está sub 2:20 por lo que comenta Luis en sus vídeos, él hace lo mismo, y divide esas sesiones en 2 o 3 tramos con un máximo de 20 km en la semana de mayor volumen (2 o 3 semanas antes del maratón). No todos los deportistas llegarán a ese volumen, dependerá de su nivel y de su capacidad de asimilación. En otro mensaje os enlazaré todos los vídeos en los que habla de la preparación para el maratón y os explicaré cómo. descargar subtítulos para poder traducirlos al inglés con Google Translate.
This post was edited 7 minutes after it was posted.
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As someone who has been training very hard for the past 2-3 years but has stagnated a bit, this approach (easy running + 1 quality threshold session) is compelling. I've felt for the last 12-18 months like a lot of the quality work I've been doing feels forced, usually consisting of 2 - 3 sessions per week. As a mid-30's guy still hoping to improve particularly at 5k/10k/HM, I may give this a whirl for a few weeks to see if I can break out of the rut I've been in.
I actually trained very similar to this for a 6 month stretch about 4 - 5 years ago, and remember making significant progress during that time despite how relatively easy the training was compared to what I've been doing recently.
I know some of you (like Potro desbocado) have a good knowledge about the spanish coach Luis del Aguila. He had great results with recreative and master runners despite no fancy training.
He works around easy moderate mileage at aerobic threshold + 1 tempo session (20-40' at HM pace +/- 1 interval session (6-8x1k at 10k pace) or another tempo session. He puts a lot emphasis in strength training as well especially for 40yo+ runners.
Could somebody give some more details about workout and mileage progression ? Also easy pace seems to be more towards moderate and in the higher range (10k pace + 1'-1'15/km) or am I wrong ? Is it based on HR as well ? Any idea about his marathon training ?
What would be a sample week for a hobbyjogger running ~6h/week ?
Hey Tarvy, great progress when you last posted. Are you still following this training pattern? I'm basically exactly where you were when you started this pace wise. I've tried NSA twice and ended up injured both times after a couple of months so this might be a more holistic approach and worth a try. Did you ever end up progressing to two sessions per week?
I also want to say that before all that, we simply focused on increasing weekly time at an easy pace. Subsequently, he did an incremental field test to estimate the anaerobic threshold with a result of HR max 200 and anaerobic threshold between 180 and 185 bpm (later confirmed in a 15K competition in which he was able to run at a pace of 3:30 and 185 bpm ). So the red line was 180 wpm, I couldn't go over it except at the end of the session by 1 or 2 wpm, but preferably not over.
When he started with me, his estimated marathon pace was 4:05, and he progressed to 3:40.
Currently he has taken some time because, although having improved in 3K, 5K, and 10K, he has not done so in 800 and 1,500 (he has stayed very close), so he has become demotivated because he expected more. He only ran an 800 and a 1,500, he has not had patience, if he had, as the weeks went by he would have surpassed his personal bests, since I changed the training scheme focused on those distances and had accumulated a good aerobic base during the months previous.
Also, Potro are you still training this guy? If so, are you still training him in the same way and how has he progressed? Thanks for all the information you shared.
Actually I plateaued after 6 months of this training and reached a sub33'. Since then I've decided to try NSM because of the big trend but burnt out very quickly. 3 workouts/week even very moderate were too much for me so I went back to a lighter schedule with success. It's coming from on old post and more Tinman inspired : basically 1 CV session (20' of work) 1 subT session (40' M pace or 6x5'/3x10' HM pace) and a long easy run, filling the week with short daily easy runs (30-45') + strides here and there. I'm feeling fresher and stronger than before and progressing again (mid 32'). There's less monotony and more differents stimuli. Short easy runs boost my recovery where 1h runs could add some fatigue.
Actually I plateaued after 6 months of this training and reached a sub33'. Since then I've decided to try NSM because of the big trend but burnt out very quickly. 3 workouts/week even very moderate were too much for me so I went back to a lighter schedule with success. It's coming from on old post and more Tinman inspired : basically 1 CV session (20' of work) 1 subT session (40' M pace or 6x5'/3x10' HM pace) and a long easy run, filling the week with short daily easy runs (30-45') + strides here and there. I'm feeling fresher and stronger than before and progressing again (mid 32'). There's less monotony and more differents stimuli. Short easy runs boost my recovery where 1h runs could add some fatigue.
Thanks so much for updating - much appreciated. Going from high 34 to sub 33 in 6 months on such a light program at our age is impressive. And then to mid 32s, well done! Definitely given me inspiration to give it a go for a few months, and then the CV progression for if/when I plateau. Worst comes to the worst I'll have a good base to build upon. It'd be nice just to get some good consistent niggle-free months in...which probably is the key to most training methods.
With NSA I think it's very under-appreciated just how advanced it actually is, 48hrs isn't much recovery. Looking at the strava group I think a significant proportion would be better off doing something like this approach here for 6 months first before adding a second session (never mind a third). Seeing them going from 25 MPW to 50 with 3 SubT sessions is likely massively overkill and may even slow progress. It's like having 5 tylenol for a headache rather than 2. The way I see it, 3 sessions per week should be the end point of singles training, not the starting point.
Actually I plateaued after 6 months of this training and reached a sub33'. Since then I've decided to try NSM because of the big trend but burnt out very quickly. 3 workouts/week even very moderate were too much for me so I went back to a lighter schedule with success. It's coming from on old post and more Tinman inspired : basically 1 CV session (20' of work) 1 subT session (40' M pace or 6x5'/3x10' HM pace) and a long easy run, filling the week with short daily easy runs (30-45') + strides here and there. I'm feeling fresher and stronger than before and progressing again (mid 32'). There's less monotony and more differents stimuli. Short easy runs boost my recovery where 1h runs could add some fatigue.
One final question if you don't mind. How many runs per week were you doing during the 6 month block and also your current phase. Did you progress from 5? Two days off a week seems lavish but my body probably wouldn't complain about the healing time! Cheers
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