I'm tempted to say Webb's mile record. Kessler's 3:34 is way better. I thought LV's 2 mile record was weak, but it withstood the NP assault, even though their #3 and #4 runners ran 7:57i/8:01i as juniors. It withstood the 2 mile attempt this year where 3 guys ran 8:34. 13:37 went 13:37 -> 13:34 this year. I think Leo could've broken the record instead of running 3:39s all season after a great WJXC showing, so maybe the 5k record is the weakest.
Honestly, I expect the 1mi-5k records to all be broken by 2028. With juniors routinely breaking 4 for the first time ever, it's gotta happen. Verzbicas only ran 3:59 in HS. Rupp only ran 4:01. Lex Young only ran 4:01.
It seems the 1:46.45 is, if not soft, certainly not the most difficult. Look at the super talent Niels Laros running 1:44.78 at the age of a U.S. HS kid.
I'm tempted to say Webb's mile record. Kessler's 3:34 is way better. I thought LV's 2 mile record was weak, but it withstood the NP assault, even though their #3 and #4 runners ran 7:57i/8:01i as juniors. It withstood the 2 mile attempt this year where 3 guys ran 8:34. 13:37 went 13:37 -> 13:34 this year. I think Leo could've broken the record instead of running 3:39s all season after a great WJXC showing, so maybe the 5k record is the weakest.
Honestly, I expect the 1mi-5k records to all be broken by 2028. With juniors routinely breaking 4 for the first time ever, it's gotta happen. Verzbicas only ran 3:59 in HS. Rupp only ran 4:01. Lex Young only ran 4:01.
For HS boys it’s the 800m and by a long shot. The two miles isn’t as crazy as you think it is. It’s like 7:51/52 for the 3000m, Leo probably had it last year, or would have been very close. It’s just a lack of opportunities and good attempts.
The mile is a bit better than the 5000m and 3:34 is just untouchable.
From an objective perspective, the 4x400 is worth the least number of points with 1070. However, I disagree that this is the weakest event. 3:07.40 is incredible and no one has come close for a reason.
Weakest individual event is the 800 with 1129 points. It's not exactly a weak record but I think there is a fair bit of luck involved for it to not have been broken yet. A number of European countries have U20 records significantly stronger than 1:46.45.
Individual event wise, this does not include the Javelin, at 1070 points, mostly because only like 3 states actually have it as an event. The 5000 is also worth 1085 and the 10000 is worth 1082, but i'm not counting those either because they are only really run at specialty meets. I think that if either was run in place of the 2 mile, the record could be significantly lower.
From an objective perspective, the 4x400 is worth the least number of points with 1070. However, I disagree that this is the weakest event. 3:07.40 is incredible and no one has come close for a reason.
Weakest individual event is the 800 with 1129 points. It's not exactly a weak record but I think there is a fair bit of luck involved for it to not have been broken yet. A number of European countries have U20 records significantly stronger than 1:46.45.
Individual event wise, this does not include the Javelin, at 1070 points, mostly because only like 3 states actually have it as an event. The 5000 is also worth 1085 and the 10000 is worth 1082, but i'm not counting those either because they are only really run at specialty meets. I think that if either was run in place of the 2 mile, the record could be significantly lower.
Obviously relay events are going to be much lower on the scoring tables as you don’t get to choose who’s in your school.
I don’t agree that you can have an objective view with just scoring tables, because we’re talking about high school athletes. Speed comes earlier than strength and stamina.
Even though 1:46:45 is worth way more points than 13:34, and would be a much better performance if we were comparing two 28 years old runners, at 17/18 years old 13:34 is a better and more impressive performance.
Just look at other countries u20 record books, a performance around or under 1:46.45 is more common than under 13:34.
It seems the 1:46.45 is, if not soft, certainly not the most difficult. Look at the super talent Niels Laros running 1:44.78 at the age of a U.S. HS kid.
It seems the 1:46.45 is, if not soft, certainly not the most difficult. Look at the super talent Niels Laros running 1:44.78 at the age of a U.S. HS kid.
So soft that it’s 27 years old.
It may be 27 years old but James Ryun, at age 19, in 1966 (57 years ago), ran 1:44.9 for 880 yards, converted to a 1:44.3 for 800m, (two hours after running a 1:51 heat), with a 53.3 opening lap followed by a 51.6 lap with a 25.5 last 220. So when I say the 1:46.45 is potentially soft, you can damn well believe it.
No lie some African American sprinter with 45-47 speed from the south can probably break it with the right training its crazy. They must have 46.x 4x400 speed in them or it's not going to work. Look at Isaiah Harris, Will Sumner, and Donovan Brazier and look at how fast they ran only 1 year out of high school. Over 6ft in height with speed is the meal ticket to 1:46, and great upper body strength is a huge plus. I'm just surprised one of these southern kids with crazy speed never blasted a random 1:46-1:47, a lot of talented kids are not touching these events, they stop at the 400m.
It may be 27 years old but James Ryun, at age 19, in 1966 (57 years ago), ran 1:44.9 for 880 yards, converted to a 1:44.3 for 800m, (two hours after running a 1:51 heat), with a 53.3 opening lap followed by a 51.6 lap with a 25.5 last 220. So when I say the 1:46.45 is potentially soft, you can damn well believe it.
From an objective perspective, the 4x400 is worth the least number of points with 1070. However, I disagree that this is the weakest event. 3:07.40 is incredible and no one has come close for a reason.
Weakest individual event is the 800 with 1129 points. It's not exactly a weak record but I think there is a fair bit of luck involved for it to not have been broken yet. A number of European countries have U20 records significantly stronger than 1:46.45.
Individual event wise, this does not include the Javelin, at 1070 points, mostly because only like 3 states actually have it as an event. The 5000 is also worth 1085 and the 10000 is worth 1082, but i'm not counting those either because they are only really run at specialty meets. I think that if either was run in place of the 2 mile, the record could be significantly lower.
Obviously relay events are going to be much lower on the scoring tables as you don’t get to choose who’s in your school.
I don’t agree that you can have an objective view with just scoring tables, because we’re talking about high school athletes. Speed comes earlier than strength and stamina.
Even though 1:46:45 is worth way more points than 13:34, and would be a much better performance if we were comparing two 28 years old runners, at 17/18 years old 13:34 is a better and more impressive performance.
Just look at other countries u20 record books, a performance around or under 1:46.45 is more common than under 13:34.
I should have been more clear. scoring tables are not an end all be all when it comes to stuff like this, especially because they are high school athletes. I didn't even try to measure field events because the implements are different in several cases.
It was just designed to give a more objective, number based view of the records for anyone interested.
It seems the 1:46.45 is, if not soft, certainly not the most difficult. Look at the super talent Niels Laros running 1:44.78 at the age of a U.S. HS kid.
So soft that it’s 27 years old.
Why does this mean it's not soft? It may be evidence that it wasn't soft *when it was set*, but that tells us very little about whether it's soft or not now.
Why does this mean it's not soft? It may be evidence that it wasn't soft *when it was set*, but that tells us very little about whether it's soft or not now.
A lot of really good runners mid-distance runners in that 27 year span broke other records, but not that one.
Why does this mean it's not soft? It may be evidence that it wasn't soft *when it was set*, but that tells us very little about whether it's soft or not now.
I'll put it another way. Webb didn't break it. Brazier didn't break it. Kessler didn't break it. Murphy didn't break it. Nuguse didn't break it.
None of the sub 4 runners in that 27 year period got close. If it was soft, surely one of them could have dipped down and grabbed a national record. They didn't
It may be 27 years old but James Ryun, at age 19, in 1966 (57 years ago), ran 1:44.9 for 880 yards, converted to a 1:44.3 for 800m, (two hours after running a 1:51 heat), with a 53.3 opening lap followed by a 51.6 lap with a 25.5 last 220. So when I say the 1:46.45 is potentially soft, you can damn well believe it.
I've always found this an interesting discrepancy. The high school 800 record relative to the US junior record is way off. Ryun, Brazier, and recently Will Sumner all ran way faster as 19 year olds but none of them held the HS 800 record. Someone in another thread pointed out that the 800 doesn't get the same level of record attempts that something like the mile does, where a high schooler gets to run in the pro field of a meet. Even Cade Flatt had to chase the record at high school meets. For most kids in this talent bracket, their first truly elite 800 (going out in 51-52 while still having people to run with) doesn't happen until college.
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