Advice for sub 80 half

I love the cycling/running approach, especially if you're hitting legs on the days where you aren't training aerobically; definitely a quick way to push your threshold, and it seems that you may already be reaping those benefits in your workouts (they look strong).

TBH, you're doing exactly what you need to be doing at this point given your situation. Bulk runs on days that you're able to run and then cycling or gym on the offs, totaling ~40mi a week is solid. However, it is crucial that you are maintaining your aerobic threshold on the days between; one day off can be like two days back, and your aerobic capacity is essential for a fast long run... gotta have the gas to run 13.1 @ 6:06/mi

This may not be the case as you see it, and you may feel as though you have plenty of capacity, but you may consider a more aerobically stimulating activity on the days where you aren't doing your longer efforts.

To answer your ending questions to the best of my ability based on the information given:

1. It would probably help your aerobic system (as i've spoken about) but you will also run the risk of injury (there's always a bargain to more volume). You may consider swimming/elliptical.

2. I think the amount of threshold you're doing is ideal, and you may consider elongating some of the threshold sessions you're doing as you progress (2-3x5k, 8k @ aerobic threshold + 3k @at).

3. I wouldn't bother with any shorter paced work unless you were looking to just do a test of fitness (a "for fun" session). I would continue to do the fartlek's that you are currently doing, but consider doing shorter rest intervals at a slower pace... I used to do these in preparation for half marathons and I found that they were EXTREMELY helpful when it came to comfortability at faster paces. Ex: 20x400 @ 10k effort (not goal race pace; you want to feel the effort) with a 200 jog between reps. Obviously work your way up to this volume/intensity.

Just based on those workouts, 77-78 should be relatively comfortable. Doing 6 min/mile would get you 78 and you're doing long reps well below that and a decent long run. Maybe get that long run up 16 miles

OP, you're good for a sub 80.

I recently ran a PB in 81, with my longest reps indoors on the treadmill being 3K and much slower than your pace, and outdoors nothing longer than 1.6K reps.

You're ready.

Definitely ready for sub 80, and with your workouts I would aim for sub 78.
2*7 km @3'40 / km is quite solid.

I did 1:21 and 36:40 last year and your training is significantly harder than mine. I was jogging 45 miles at 8-9 minute pace and then something like 4x1 mile at 5:50-6. Could only do 18:10 5k though. If you can do 17-17:30 then submit 80 should be easy.

I agree with everyone else who says you are solidly under 80. The only minor critique would be to extend your long run a little bit beyond 14. But maybe not since what you are doing seems to be working well.

100% agree. These look like 77-78 type workouts to me. Good volume/longer reps at sub-6:00 pace. The 2x7k should be a good predictor.

Now that I've transitioned to triathlon, I'm sold on being able to run well off of slightly lower mileage but with a ton of swimming/biking. It sounds like you're not just biking easy but training hard on those days. Think you'll be fine. Maybe the mileage & long runs are a little concerning but not enough for me to think you can't go sub-80. I think 6:00-flat would be the goal through 10k & maybe dip into the 5:50s in the back half if you're feeling good.

Just a note for 2022 but there's no such thing as a warm up/qualifying half. That kind of effort 2 weeks before your goal race probably got you sick/would've killed your race anyways. You probably had sub-80 on that day but stuck to the easy plan to start & then ran a too hard for training 10k. Go for sub-80. Even your HS times show good strength. You got this.

Agree, I ran 1:19:01 with similar overall mileage but weaker workouts than you’re doing. The main difference between is my workouts tended to be more tempo-y with less rest, e.g. 2X4 mile @ MP/HMP w/ no rest (classic CPTC workout). But what you’re doing seems to be working fine for you. I would have struggled to do long reps at 545 pace, which was probably like 8k pace for me.

OP, are you in Canada?

I'd say you're good for a sub 80.

The only things I'd recommend are:

1. If you can do more easy running, it will definitely benefit you - in terms of running economy. Cycling is great for developing your aerobic base, but it doesn't provoke the specific adaptations that easy running does. Obviously, if you're injury prone, it's great to use cycling to balance your training, but if you can integrate more running gradually, it will certainly help your performance.

2. Be careful in these big volume workouts to not push into vo2 max territory. In some of these workouts you're getting down to 3:30/km pace, which seems far beyond half marathon pace. This suggests you're running them all out, which defeats the purpose of the workout - which is to simulate half marathon pace. You don't want to be relying on your vo2 max energy system when you're only 10-11kms into the race. Also, it makes recovering from these workouts much harder.

3. Some shorter pace work will certainly help. Having a "speed reserve" will likely lower your perception of effort, which may make it easier to relax throughout the early stages of the race. Perhaps just once a fortnight, you could do some shorter reps at 5-10k pace.

I ran 1:20:21 (admittedly failing your goal by 22 seconds) and would have never hit any of these times in workout. You got this. As others said this looks like 1:17-1:18 shape, so go out in 6 flat and take it from there!

When I was in 1h12 shape I could hit these workouts, but they would not have felt easy at all.

Everybody says 1h17, but to me it s more around 1h15.

In any case, sub 80 is not even a target.

Nope! The weird mix of miles / km is for other reasons. You can keep guessing if you’d like though!

Thanks, this is more or less where my thoughts were this last week. The knee‘s a bit sore at the moment but I should be able to gradually build more easy mileage in over the next couple weeks. Where I live is very flat, but every week or two recently I‘ve been somewhere with significant hills, so I was able to do some longer easy runs, but make them basically as hilly as possible. That added strength along with some speed reserve from the occasional pace work, I’m hoping, should make the HM pace seem easier over time.

And thanks for the point about the pace discipline. I do make a point of trying to finish all tempo work such that I can continue running right away into a normal easy pace, but I‘m still not totally sure if I‘m pushing the tempo too hard at times. I suspect you’re right, however, that my threshold is definitely above 3:30/km.

For some perspective, I did a 6 x 1600 track workout back at the end of June, gradually progressing from 5:40-5:27, with ~75 sec walking/standing rest between each. Those usually saw my HR peak 172-175, whereas my HR has usually stayed under 170 on my tempo efforts.

Thanks — yeah I’ve felt really good the last couple years keeping cycling in the mix (or running) whenever I’m focusing on one or the other more. It also means less transition time when I shift focuses. Running is definitely more time-efficient and flexible, but when the occasional freak inflammation has cropped up, I’ve hardly lost fitness by switching to pure cross-training for a week.

I am intending on building up to a 2 hour long run again, as well as 15-16 milers with tempo work, as long as I can do it without increased knee soreness.

I think you’re totally right about that half last year. My intention was to go even easier than I did, but my workouts weren’t anywhere near as developed last time as this year, so I was flying sort of blind and got caught up in racing it in the last 7-8km. I do really like the idea of setting out at 6 flat pace and seeing how much I can negative split in the second half!

Thanks for the answers. I’m going to start adding a bit more easy mileage based on feel, but with increased time at home over the next several weeks, I should also be able to add at least one longer day on the bike too. I find it’s hard to replace the kind of depth of fitness that 3-5 hour rides can give you, if only because a 90 min run seems short in comparison. I do know from experience that, while I can put in some big workouts and recover fairly well, the challenge for me comes in the accumulation of fatigue — if I do intensity much more than 3x a week, I can start to feel burnt out.

I‘m planning on topping out at 3x5km for the tempo blocks, then keeping that as a staple workout over the next while — should manage that this or next week. On the long runs where I do pace work, I’ll aim to do the last 8-10 miles progressively.

Thanks for the fartlek idea. I haven’t done anything like this in a while but it sounds very appealing!

Yeah, I’m thinking it’s a soft target for sure and will probably pace for more like 78… It‘s been so long since I raced regularly or with tapers that I don’t really know that X factor about myself, namely how much more pace I find on race day than I was showing on good workouts.

ever got your answers aka half time?

This thread is nice, and I like the helpful back and forth between poster and responders, but can we also acknowledge that you were already capable of sub 80 at age 18 and probably last year as well?

I hope the thread helps your confidence, but the actual challenge presented to you is how to (or whether you can/want to) progress from your current fitness to sub 76.