Saratoga Girls Program Lawsuit

Yes, weight does make an impact in performance. Am I asking you to starve yourself? No. Am I asking you to skip that late night sugary snack? Yes. Any mention of weight these days will get you canceled yet it plays a HUGE factor in performance.

Yes, running everyday could make you better. These days suggesting you workout more than 5 days a week and out of season is considered physically abusive. Forget about higher mileage. Consistency, year-round, is a HUGE factor in performance

Yes, not being distracted with boyfriends can make you better. Psychological abuse if you make that suggestion. Boyfriends want to doink you and take your mind off the goals, why would coaches and parents NOT think that is bad for performance? Not to mention a complete waste of time....maybe the Christian, religious parents would be on board.

Tell your athlete she should have run more last week (as they had agreed to): public shaming.

Coaching a female athlete is a mine field. That being said, the expectations should be set from day 1, in writing, and signed off by the parent and student. The athlete can fall into two camps: the regular performance program and the elite performance program. Let the athlete choose and spell out what each means. That way the athlete can never blame the coach for abuses . They chose the path and they literally signed up for it knowing all the potential risks (injuries).

I will say if the kid is injured don't push them.

But it's not a wrestling program. it's a cross-country program.

You don't have to weigh a certain amount to even compete.

You clearly don't understand what it takes to be a High School coach in 2023.

I hope the coaches have a route to turn around and counter sue the accusers…

none of these parents had a problem with the program when their daughters’ names were in the paper, when they had their pictures being taken or when they were hoisting the team title on the podium…

they could’ve taken them off the team at any time

no one had a problem with the coach when he was so alert that he stopped one of his athletes from being abducted from the parking lot?

Welcome to 2023

Somehow thousands of coaches are able to navigate these “mine fields” every day with remarkable ease.

What a pointless post.

"skip that sugary late night snack"--none of the coaches accused of abuse were simply asking for this. Mary Cain has emails with her nutritionist where she talks about only eating fruits and veggies all day and the nutritionist said it was a good idea. As another poster said, she was given prescription drugs to lose weight and keep it off.

"skip that sugary late night snack" that's all the Toga girls are alleging? No, a poster mentioned they had to submit food logs, and pretty much obey their coaches when it came to food intake. That's too much for a kid and a teenager.

Run all year round if you want, I ran 6 days a week in high school. But mandating practice 365 days a year is overkill. doubles at 5Am and in the afternoon will lead most kids to injury.

Stay the hell out of your teenage athletes' personal lives. They are developing and expanding and growing. Having romantic relationships is a part of high school life for many kids, and it's creepy as a coach to try to limit that or even recommend that it should be limited. Sure they might be better runners in the short term, but they wouldn't have developed parts of themselves that are important to being human and happy.

Coaching female athletes is simple when you aren't an abusive controlling jerk. But don't lament about how everyone is so "soft" these days while simultaneously making up a fake narrative about how "limiting sugary snacks" is abuse.

What’s really interesting is watching the “Coach Prime” documentary series on Amazon and seeing how Deion Sanders treats his athletes. He would be crucified if he coached cross country. Heck, even if he coached pro runners.

I know nothing about this school or lawsuit, but I was watching this show the other night and it was hard not to see the very stark contrast in what football coaches are allowed to do (praised, even), versus Track and XC coaches.

A wild juxtaposition. The answer to great coaching is probably somewhere in the middle.

Of COURSE a bunch of Letsrunners think that you shouldn’t date in high school 😂😂

The problem with these kinds of coaching structures is that they don't educate the athletes to be independent - which should be the goal of most programs. Too much of a one-size fits all type of scenario and reliant on the coach for almost everything. There is a life outside of running and serious athletes will get the training done outside of school practice, certainly in the HS environment. Heck my top athlete runs with kids from other schools for aerobic days (hate the term "off-day", because it isn't, as opposed to a rest day). So he meets with and socializes with motivated kids from elsewhere - they are NOT the enemy. He even runs sometimes with his girlfriend (also a runner, but from a different school). Because you know, it isn't about me, but the athlete and THEIR goals in the sport.

Those that are aiming for athletic scholarships need to be reminded that at that level it can be seen as a "job", but regardless, while winning is fun, not at expense of other things - like dating. Whether the kids want to date is entirely up to them and their parents - no school coach should have any influence at all. These people (Kranicks) sound like what I call "coachaholics" - who make it about them and their success, that athletes come and go, it is about numbers. These coaches need to take a step back, regardless of their so-called success.

No one needs to meet up on major holidays, if you think so, then you are a lousy coach at instilling self-responsibility into the athlete or you see your "Program" as like the 10 commandments - things can always be altered and adapted, as is often the case with weather, if you and they (athlete) understand what is trying to be accomplished. Look at the obsessiveness of Gjert Ingebrigtsen, where coach/parent role has been blurred to the point of alienating his star kid (wasn't even at his wedding). That is being a coachaholic (as good a coach as I believe he is from the x's and o's perspective). But NO high school coach, don't care about the success, needs to be that obsessive and controlling. It basically says that you don't trust your athletes to get something done on their own - and that is on you, not them.

After reading this I feel compelled to offer some commentary and perspective.

Personal Background: I graduated from Saratoga in the mid 2000s and was a member of the team for cross country, indoor, and outdoor track, from 7th grade through senior year (yes, 18 seasons total*). I qualified for and competed at multiple state championships across seasons and was part of state championship teams. I can't comment on the totality of the Kranick's coaching since I was there for a small portion of it, but generally speaking the program has remain essentially unchanged from the early 90s until today.

*Note - importantly, in NYS, athletes are eligible to compete on Varsity athletics beginning in 7th grade. So for many schools, Saratoga included, junior high kids practice along side the high schoolers. This was the case for the distance program - girls started in 7th grade and it was essentially one giant team.

Truths/Myths:

Myth: The Kranicks are being sued. No - in fact, the letter is just a note alleging mistreatment, and has been sent to the state governing body. It's possible that this could manifest itself in the future as a lawsuit but right now there's no litigation.

Myth: The Kranicks give or gave performance enhancing drugs. Vehemently oppose this sentiment. At no point during my tenure was this ever even remotely contemplated. Did not hear anything related to it in the years before or after I was there. Per a previous post - the kerfuffle in the mid 90s was from a family that didn't like the program and moved to rival Shenendehowa - you can do some google searching on it but it essentially boiled down to the family being concerned with the intensity of the program and a claim that the coaches provided the athletes with B12 supplements. Unclear how pervasive this was or whether it was suggested offhand to a single athlete. My beef has always been with dumb opposing teams and coaches saying things like "oh they must be giving them something." BS! We would beat teams b/c we worked harder than them.

Truth: Saratoga kids run 7 days a week, essentially all year. This is true. Practice is held Monday through Saturday with an "optional" long run on Sunday mornings. Practices on Sundays and over the summer are provided under the auspices of a public Saratoga recreation program - which while technically is true, essentially functions as an extension of the program. Athletes who have any hope of running varsity understand that (a) attendance makes you better and (b) lack of attendance is not looked upon favorably by the coaches.

I will note though - the 7 day a week regimen is actually not as bad as it sounds. In my mind what is worse is the lack of downtime between seasons. Given that the team is so good, we'd run cross country through late November and then literally immediately transition into indoor track the Monday after our last race (Feds or now NXN). This would repeat itself after indoor season, and to a lesser extent after outdoor track before summer running started up (which, like Sunday runs is a full time committment).

Myth: Athletes are forced to run through injury. Not true. Girls would get injured in the normal course of training. The expectation was that you'd still try hard and attend practice, but not that you'd do things that would make an injury worse. With that said, I realize in retrospect that girls would be training through things they shouldn't. Not because the coaches insisted, but because they didn't provide us with enough perspective that some time off would help. See the Truth section above for between season recovery - essentially didn't exist.

Truth: Saratoga athletics program is deferential to the Kranicks. Won't overly elaborate but they've been able to establish a fairly insulated bubble in which to operate. The immense success certainly has helped but the school overall has let them operate with few restrictions.

Truth: Saratoga runners do poorly in college. Now being older and having some perspective, I realize this is true. Many of my friends got partial d1 scholarship and immediatley burned out. This is not always true, and many girls did great in college. But I think this was the exception not the norm.

Myth: Coaches hate their athletes. Totally untrue. They care deeply about each runner doing well. They've established what in their minds is a difficult and rigorous program designed to maximize each person's potential. I think they've skewed toward overtraining many athletes, but not out of any bad intention.

Overall perpsective: My best analogy is that the team is run like a high caliber college football program or maybe like boys high school hockey in Minnesota or something. This in the sense that it truly is a program - you either commit to it and love it or you're essentially on the outside looking in. Again, now with the benefit of age I realize the coaches were particularly adept at getting younger girls to buy into this mentality. None of us had the background to realize there was any other way. Of course you ran 7 days a a week. Of course you sprinted to to front every single race. Of course you won every dual meet every year. These aren't necessarily bad things - they're just a super intense way to go through high school and sports in general.

Great post. Nice to see the perspective of someone who was in the program.

Wow, what a great post in which you clearly tried to be objective to the best of your ability. Thank you. I don't know how anyone could really argue with it, though for sure there could be arguments on how much is too much, etc.

Questions:

1) 7 days a week is pretty amazing. You said that lack of attendance (presumably the Sunday optional run) was looked upon unfavorably. Other than knowing that they clearly disagreed with having days off, were there any punitive actions taken? How was the varsity team determined?

2) Did the coaches mandate "no boyfriends"? Did they just answer their thoughts / beliefs when asked? Did they unsolicitedly overstep in personal issues?

3) If a runner wanted to do things differently, could they? Were there any other public school options (outside requiring a family to literally sell their home and move)?

Comments:

1) This person that was there says that the enforced running through injuries is a myth.

2) While this person says that it is objectively true that Saratoga runners do poorly in college, I believe this is a bit of conjecture. They do poorly relative to what this person thinks they should do.

No doubt this program is super intense, and I would like for a runner to have some reasonable options if it is too much and too close for them. BUT, I don't think it can be deemed as outright wrong. At least at this point, the parents and kids know what this is, and as noted by others, when compared to other situations outside of running, it may not be quite as extreme. If a runner wants to reach their potential, what does that require?

That was my thought in my coaching days, many? most? all? plateau when they get a boyfriend. Last year I had the joy of attending the wedding of one of those girls to her HS boyfriend after they graduated from separate colleges. Now she's training for a marathon. Eventually you'll get old enough to have perspective on this.

Do the Kranicks have any kids of their own? I feel like they must not and would be better coaches if they did.

Sports were invented to be play. They're supposed to be fun. When sports become a source of misery, or even abuse, they've become something other than sports.

Yes. They have been there almost 40 years. Is that Kelsey Chmiel on the far right in a "Virginia Cross Country" shirt?

saratogaliving.com

Art And Linda Kranick, Saratoga Springs High School Cross-Country Coaches, Own The Road - Saratoga Living

Tony Case

Art and Linda Kranick, Saratoga Springs High School's cross-country coaches, have ruled the road for more than 30 years. Especially, the girl's team.

Link:saratogaliving.com/art-and-linda-krani...

Agree at the end of day if a parent believes an all in singular focus is how they want their kids to be brought up, well it could lead to a very successful career, my beef is if that’s the goal why do it through athletics? Why not through academics? You can train a teen to dominate other teens in sports, however adults with natural athletic talent will be the ones with pro sports careers, while the rest of The 99.9% population will be left by the side. However a strict focused academic program leaves them with real life skills

And every normal coach knows who the ones are who make it about them. The line that separates appropriate from inappropriate conduct with your kids is usually impressively clear, and often highly regulated by local youth sports institutions. Coaching highschoolers, girls or boys, isn't a minefield unless you're only in it for yourself and refuse to see where the obvious lines are.

I'll also nip the inevitable "professional jealousy" thing in the bud. I'm jealous of a lot of coaches, but it's the ones who are definitely more skilled than me; do things the right way; and win constantly. Succeeding without being abusive isn't some arcane secret.