American men bombed, are we not going to send 3 to the Olympics?

Interesting that guys like Fauble overcooked on a 2:07 mid pace when guys like Navarro & Naert have run 2:06 mid this year. You saying that Navarro/Naert types are that much more talented? Navarros best 10 is a 29:46, and Naert was a 13:32 5000 guy with a recent 1:01 mid half marathon best. And they're not small guys. Naert is a near 150 pound guy

Being in 2:07 shape doesn't count. Finishing in 2:07 does. Hope that clears your mind.

Are only hope is King Ches becoming a citizen.

I don’t think 60 grams is the problem with American marathoning.

And why is Jared Ward flying to Berlin to run another very average race on a fast course? Maybe to escape his wife and four kids for a week, but 2:11 isn't impressive.

For a lady it is.

Kinda like bike races when you have a team lieutenant pacing the leader up long climbs, and when they're done, they're done. Almost stop on the road.

Everyone needs to keep living in Boulder running in carbon shoes every day and doing Sunday long runs. It's working great.

Boulder bro?

The women's WR holder is likely doping.

Quite the contrary. New York and Boston are far superior, as seen by Kipchoge’s poor performance in Boston this year. The challenging courses, unpredictable weather, and pleasant lack of pacemakers make for real racing, compared with the over-scripted flat courses in Berlin and London.

It’s really kind of inexplicable though how bad American “elite” marathoning is at the moment on the men’s side. How is it that we send a bunch of guys to Berlin only to have none of them break 2:10, a time that is probably equivalent to 2:13-2:15 in the old shoes?

We’re actually slower than we were 30 years ago even with the new shoes. Is it really just as simple as the best guys are focusing on the track, and that’s it? To another poster’s point, there are 29 minute 10k guys from the rest of the world popping out 2:06. Hell, I wouldn’t be surprised if some of the top triathletes like Blummenfelt could run 2:08-2:09 which is still several minutes behind the world’s best. Is there a flaw in our training, mentality, etc? Anyone have a proper diagnosis? I’m just baffled at this point.

This is from about 45 years ago without the Supershoes and the double threshold workouts:

1980 USA Olympic Marathon Trials
Buffalo, NY
May 24, 1980
Overall Finish Order ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1. Tony Sandoval OR 2:10:19 0:04:58 1/MOPEN 1/M 2. Benji Durden GA 2:10:41 0:04:59 2/MOPEN 2/M 3. Kyle Heffner TX 2:10:55 0:05:00 3/MOPEN 3/M 4. Ron Tabb TX 2:12:39 0:05:04 4/MOPEN 4/M 5. Jeff Wells OR 2:13:16 0:05:05 5/MOPEN 5/M 6. Kevin McCarey OR 2:13:17 0:05:05 6/MOPEN 6/M 7. Randy Thomas MA 2:13:40 0:05:06 7/MOPEN 7/M 8. Gordon Minty MI 2:13:53 0:05:06 8/MOPEN 8/M 9. Frank Richardson IA 2:14:17 0:05:07 9/MOPEN 9/M 10. Dennis Rinde CA 2:14:22 0:05:07 10/MOPEN 10/M 11. Walt Saeger OH 2:14:38 0:05:08 11/MOPEN 11/M 12. Dave Smith CA 2:14:48 0:05:08 12/MOPEN 12/M 13. David Patterson PA 2:15:09 0:05:09 13/MOPEN 13/M 14. Chuck Hattersley CO 2:15:30 0:05:10 14/MOPEN 14/M 15. Jeff Foster PA 2:15:56 0:05:11 15/MOPEN 15/M 16. Dick Beardsley MN 2:16:01 0:05:11 16/MOPEN 16/M 17. John Dimick VT 2:16:08 0:05:12 17/MOPEN 17/M 18. Kim Burke PA 2:16:10 0:05:12 18/MOPEN 18/M 19. John Vitale CT 2:16:22 0:05:12 19/MOPEN 19/M 20. Ted Castaneda CO 2:16:38 0:05:13 20/MOPEN 20/M 21. Mike Pinocci NV 2:16:46 0:05:13 21/MOPEN 21/M 22. Gary Fanelli PA 2:16:49 0:05:13 22/MOPEN 22/M 23. Chuck Smead CA 2:16:58 0:05:13 23/MOPEN 23/M 24. Cliff Karthauser NE 2:16:58 0:05:13 24/MOPEN 24/M 25. Bill Glad WA 2:17:23 0:05:14 25/MOPEN 25/M 26. John Miley OK 2:17:23 0:05:14 26/MOPEN 26/M 27. Roy Kulikowski SC 2:17:26 0:05:15 27/MOPEN 27/M 28. Bruce Robinson MD 2:17:30 0:05:15 28/MOPEN 28/M 29. David Miley OK 2:17:40 0:05:15 29/MOPEN 29/M 30. Rick Callison OH 2:17:42 0:05:15 30/MOPEN 30/M 31. Don Slusser PA 2:17:44 0:05:15 31/MOPEN 31/M 32. Will Albers VA 2:17:50 0:05:15 32/MOPEN 32/M 33. Phil Camp FL 2:17:56 0:05:16 33/MOPEN 33/M 34. David McDonald PA 2:18:15 0:05:16 34/MOPEN 34/M 35. David Hinz MI 2:18:21 0:05:17 35/MOPEN 35/M 36. Bob Hensley CT 2:18:32 0:05:17 36/MOPEN 36/M 37. Bill Haviland OH 2:18:37 0:05:17 37/MOPEN 37/M 38. Bob Varsha GA 2:18:40 0:05:17 38/MOPEN 38/M 39. Terry Heath ID 2:18:57 0:05:18 39/MOPEN 39/M 40. Frank Bautista OR 2:19:00 0:05:18 40/MOPEN 40/M 41. Ron Wayne CA 2:19:01 0:05:18 41/MOPEN 41/M 42. Bobby Doyle RI 2:19:04 0:05:18 42/MOPEN 42/M 43. Mike Healer FL 2:19:08 0:05:18 43/MOPEN 43/M 44. Dennis O'Halloran CA 2:19:08 0:05:18 44/MOPEN 44/M 45. Tom Grundy RI 2:19:13 0:05:19 45/MOPEN 45/M 46. Craig Holm NY 2:19:17 0:05:19 46/MOPEN 46/M 47. Leonard Hill OR 2:19:20 0:05:19 47/MOPEN 47/M 48. Bob Becker IA 2:19:21 0:05:19 48/MOPEN 48/M 49. Bob Duncan NY 2:19:35 0:05:19 49/MOPEN 49/M 50. Lee Edmonds CA 2:19:36 0:05:19 50/MOPEN 50/M 51. Frank Trammel LA 2:19:40 0:05:20 51/MOPEN 51/M 52. Jean Ellis CA 2:19:42 0:05:20 52/MOPEN 52/M 53. Tom Blumer OH 2:19:46 0:05:20 53/MOPEN 53/M 54. Randy Fischer SD 2:19:49 0:05:20 54/MOPEN 54/M 55. Michael Hairston OK 2:19:52 0:05:20 55/MOPEN 55/M 56. Mike Cassaday CA 2:19:54 0:05:20 56/MOPEN 56/M

Lets face it. We have no marathoners that can compete against the best in the world. Just stick with the sprints. No 800's, 1500's, 3000 steeplechase, 5000 or 10000.

Fauble got (unwarranted) criticism for running conservatively at Boston while Mantz ran aggressively up front. Let’s not criticism for going for it here and giving himself a shot at 2:07

I think you meant 40 years ago.

Ok, nerd.

That is an alarming statement when you see it in print......wow

I mean realistically we shouldn’t get 3 guys to the Olympics.

How many American men do we have training full time to run marathons? 20? I’m talking guys where that is their job. 15 maybe?

So great you’d have a 10-20% of making the team if you are a pro marathoner. That’s a pretty low standard