First Real Sub 4 Mile

If it was not posted on the net, it did not happen.

You are close but mistaken. Actually it was George Custer who broke the 4:00 mile at Little Big Horn in 1876 when he was running from the Native Americans. Or rather, he WOULD have broken 4:00 if they didn't catch and scalp him.

Actually about 6 months I did see something on the web about it, I just forgot who, what, where and everything about it. I'm holding on to some hope here...

One of those sweedish guys was the first that i know of. It didn't count because they were banned for accepting money for competing. It should still count as the first sub 4. Especially since guys today can get paid and have their times count. It was either Arne Andersson or Gunder Haag who broke 4 first...or maybe it was both i can't remember.

I've heard this myth. The following is from a website encouraging the teaching of American Indian accomplishments. I don't believe it to be true.

Native American people have competed nationally and worldwide as runners. Use the following examples:

1876—Big Hawk, Chief, Pauneo tribe, was the first person to break the 4-minute mile. The U.S. Army measured out the course and timed him twice under four minutes. However, the world would not recognize him and gave Roger Bannister official credit in 1954, 77 years later.

Lots more on this site about amazing Indian running.

Since getting a name I found a few other things...

ESPN:

http://espn.go.com/moresports/columns/hollobaugh_jeff/356636.html

Native American Education: (section 2)

http://www.ldoe.org/cetia/pe.htm

Some food for thought on this, I'd be curious to see primary source documentation or contemporary write ups of the runs.

Lorenzo the Magnificent wrote:

1876—Big Hawk, Chief, Pauneo tribe, was the first person to break the 4-minute mile. The U.S. Army measured out the course and timed him twice under four minutes.

See "How long is a 5K?" thread and change to "How long is a mile?"

I fail to see how a race of people who had yet to invent the horse, forks or the wheel could run a sub 4.

Custer was right wrote:

I fail to see how a race of people who had yet to invent the horse, forks or the wheel could run a sub 4.

Is that a joke? What does it matter what they could invent? The fact is, they were outside hunting everyday, and I'm sure in pretty good shape. You're point is totally irrelevant. I'm not saying it happened or did not happen, I'm just saying, think dude!

BUUUUMP! This is classic

Custer was right wrote:

I fail to see how a race of people who had yet to invent the horse could run a sub 4.

HAHAHAHAHA oh man, this has to be the best thing I've read on here in a while!!!! I didn't know someone invented the horse. Makes you wonder what other kind of animals they'll invent next.

Neither Haag nor Anderson broke four. Not even people who knew them nor they themselves have claimed this.

I can recall reading some British research a few years back that was scholarly in tone and provided a detailed history of professional match races in England as far back as the late 18th century. Sub 4 was recorded more than once(according to the articles) and there was much incentive for accurate measurements with surveyors' chains as much money was wagered. You should be able to find something with a search engine.

Looking forward to your tribe discovering humor

or even by looking further down the page!!!!!!!!!!!!

http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=411830

accuracy problem wrote:

Lorenzo the Magnificent wrote:

1876—Big Hawk, Chief, Pauneo tribe, was the first person to break the 4-minute mile. The U.S. Army measured out the course and timed him twice under four minutes.

See "How long is a 5K?" thread and change to "How long is a mile?"

Given the number of previous threads that involve the US military and judging distance run I think the claim needs to be treated with a healthy degree of scepticism.

They aren't too good at judging time either; they turned up 2.5 years late in 1917 and 1941

I heard about that too, that there was actually a sort of professionalism to running at that stage. The athletes that were running were not professionals but the money their masters were waging on them was significant enough for them to take a significant interest in how their runners were prepared.

Modern day horse racing equivelant..

Could this have lead to a 4 minute mile - I think very possibly yes.. The incentives were greater then to run fast - run fast or get your head chopped off?

garfield wrote:

BUUUUMP! This is classic

Custer was right wrote:

I fail to see how a race of people who had yet to invent the horse could run a sub 4.

HAHAHAHAHA oh man, this has to be the best thing I've read on here in a while!!!! I didn't know someone invented the horse. Makes you wonder what other kind of animals they'll invent next.

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AKC, cattle breeders, horse breeders, sheep breeders,...what do you call all the breeds they have, uh, created [invented]?

Forget Military measurment when it comes to running...about 10 years ago I though about going into the military, so they had me take this physical fitness test..push ups, sit ups, and a 1.5 mile run....I was a decent runner then 3:49(1500)...but I laughed my ass off when i crossed the line about 3 minutes ahead of the next guy and the time was 6:47 as I was in trainers and didn't run hard....but those f***ers were "HELL YEAH-we've got a live one here".....needles to say I was like "no thanks".