XC rules thoughts

I assume this is a high school meet? First off, by the rules this is not a disqualification according to NHFS rules.

They should have had flags, pennant banner flags, or at the very least cones out there if they wanted runners to go around the curve of a fence line. The painted line on the ground is not enough. This reminds me of my high school days when I had to lead most races and the course description was the host coach pointing at various field saying how many times, we had to run each one and how obvious it is. I basically had to memorize the last half mile and run with the host school's top runner up until that point. I still have stress dreams about this.

Now, I am a coach. We host two meets each year and there is absolutely no chance anyone will cut the course as we spend 5-8 hours each time with cones, flags, and pendants.

You're probably not going to like this but the group that marked the course should be confronted and not the athletes.

I didn't want to sound biased in the original post, so here
is the rest of the story, the runner in question is my daughter. About an hour
before the race, she and I walked a portion of the course and I pointed out that this
was a point where leaving the line would make sense. We discussed how most if
not all the other runners would likely stay close to the chalk line and I left
the discussion telling her that as the race was still an hour away that cones
could be added but if they weren’t, she should cut straight across. It was a
quad meet and her team was hosting, after the race I was talking with my
daughter, her coach, who in this case was also hosting the race, came up and
told my daughter they were discussing whether or not she would be DQed. My
daughter asked for an explanation and the coach explained that rules were that
she had to remain close to the line. This is where I interjected insisting that
there was no rule regarding proximately to the line and the coach insisted
that it is a rule. I said I was 100% certain that there was no such rule, I had
been certain prior to giving my daughter the advice but while she was warming up,
I reviewed the rules because I knew it was a bold move that was likely to
garner attention. The coach and I went back and forth for several minutes her
insisting that she had been involved in XC for many years and knew the rules
and that if my daughter did that in the larger race this weekend, she would be
DQed. I asked the coach about this “rule”, I asked “how close is close? Can she
be 10 feet off?”, “yes”, “Can she be 15 feet off?”, “15 is kind of a lot”, “so
like 12?” “yes, 12 feet is the limit, she just has to stay close”. Eventually
we agreed to disagree and I said that while my daughter is on this team, she
will follow the coach’s instructions. Lastly though I said “hey you’ve got
another meet in three weeks, how about I buy some cones, and donate them to the
program to be placed around that field and the problem is solved.” The coach
said that was not necessary or desired because everyone except my daughter knows
and obeys the rules regarding the line, as it was clearly an intentional move, I felt she was insinuating my daughter and I were dishonest cheaters. I insisted that running the tangents is smart racing and common practice, coach feels it is a dishonest, un-sportsman like practice and actually cheating. I feel bad about getting into the discussion, I emailed the coach last night and apologized for disrespecting her but the idea that I am so certain about the rules and she is equally certain is still somehow eating at me. I just wondered, does the community in general believe there is a rule like this? Is this coach woefully misinformed or is her
belief a commonly held one within the sport?

Cheater.

It is clearly cheating. Take your argument to an extreme and a runner can just start and head straight to the finish which may be 20 feet away.

Dude, you're being absolutely ridiculous and you're arguing an absolutely ridiculous technicality. You gave your daughter terrible advice.

I am not saying a runner can go straight to the finish, I am saying, as the rules clearly state that they must go around every lamp post, tree, cone, rock etc. that the line goes around but outside of that there is no obligation to stay "close" to the line. If we want runners to stay "close" to the line it needs to be a defined distance, in this case runners were on both sides of the line, my daughter was at her furthest point maybe 35-40 feet from it, the next nearest runners to her were maybe 10-15 feet from the line. So if 10-15 feet is acceptable, and 35 is unacceptable how far from the line is okay? I'm saying that in the absence of a rule setting a distance the description of "close to the line" they are attempting to enforce is too vague. My argument is that there is no rule, and unless someone defines a rule and until there is a clearly defined rule you cannot be disqualifying runners who intentionally or unintentionally interpret the "close", in a different manner. I am a rules follower to the extreme, but in the absence of a rule I believe in taking every advantage available. If this is a loophole exploited by unscrupulous athletes then we simply need to close the loophole.

To take your argument to the extreme every runner who steps off a 4 inch wide line will be disqualified from the race.

People like you make it harder for high school coaches. Most do a lot for the very little pay. Stop being a helicopter and just let the coach handle anything that deals with the sport. You really shouldn't be getting into a back and forth argument. Its petty and it only makes you look bad..

I agree, I apologized to the coach, I told her I will temper my enthusiasm in the future, I fully understand that it is unacceptable, that I should have kept my mouth shut. I had a chance to point it out before the meet, I had a chance to volunteer to help layout the course and I didn't, and if I'm not going to invest upfront I should not complain on the back. In that respect I am absolutely the dick here. I was disrespectful to someone who is volunteering their time to make my daughters life better, but I have apologized both in person and in writing and beyond that there is little I can do other than simply be better in the future. I have no intention of bringing this up with the coach again. Still, the underlying rule or lack of a rule here is causing me to spin, I expected that when she went across the field it would raise eyebrows amongst other parents but I fully believed that everyone who knows XC would see it as smart, heads up running. Now seeing some of the comments here I am seeing that possibly I am the outlier.

I thought it was 6 feet but I can't find the rule.

I would only add that perhaps there should be additional flags or cones so everyone know to run on the inside of them.

I appreciate you looking, but last night I scoured the rulebooks form several states, the NCAA and World Athletics. I feel certain that the six foot rule you're thinking of is something someone told you and not a rule that is written anywhere.

Absolutely agree, if there are cones, rock, flags whatever, runners must go around them but in the absence of them it is in my opinion not cheating or unethical to round a cone or other object and to look up, find the next object that the line goes around and run directly towards that object even when the line has an arc.

Spectrum?

Interesting. You may be correct but I would never have a runner intentionally avoid the line even if the reality is that the course should have flags.

I’ve not been tested but from what I can tell, it’s a close call. I operate in the world, have a job, friends and hobbies etc. but sometimes run into difficulties with stuff like this. I like things clearly defined, and I can easily be upset if I feel I’m being unfairly persecuted. In my experience lots of distance runners have what I call “runner’s weird”, I don’t know if the sport attracts people like this, or if the time alone, thinking, while running in the sun makes us weird. To answer your question, I’d say “maybe”, but also feel the question is off topic

I am now wondering about spectators. How close can they be to a single white line?

Personally I think this was a smart way to take advantage of the rules and get an edge. But the optics would have been better if it wasn’t a home meet.

I realize this is an academic discussion at this point, but a map would be helpful. I usually fallback on take the shortest line unless it's otherwise marked or instructed. Sounds like that was ambiguous. Some courses just use lines to keep runners from getting lost (i.e. follow the line), but I don't ever recall an instance where I was instructed to stay within so many feet of the line.

We used to run a course that ran along a curved fence inside some baseball diamonds. I never saw a runner cut a straight line rather than following the fence. But if they had, it would certainly be an advantage and result in a DQ.

In my opinion, the smart thing to do, would have been to discuss this with the coach before the meet. But you left that for after the meet and now you have a problem. Your kid may be labeled a cheater by the other kids, even if it turns out technically that she didn't.

You did the right thing by apologizing to the coach. But more importantly, what you need to do, is to apologize to your daughter. That's what I would do (I have two daughters who run cross country, also).

If this happened between me and one of my daughters, I'd tell her, "I'm sorry. I messed up and it put you in a bad position. I thought I was sure about the rule and now I'm not so sure. My intent was to help you, but the opposite happened. I apologize." She's likely to think much more highly of you in the long run if you do that, than if you stick to your guns and barely squeak by on a rule technicality.