What is it about the Japanese running system that is so much better than the USA? Is it genetics or what?
This discussion on the topic of Japanese vs US men's marathoning depth has probably been had to death on letsrun already - given their track times across the board, the answer is no to genetics, and yes to their culture of high mileage, youth development, highly organized and integrated support systems as well as the associated prestige and focus on long distance road races.
Long distance running is definitely more pushed to the average athlete there just like in the African countries that dominate. So you have way more people willing to try the HM+ early in their careers even if they could be successful on the track distances. Ultimately you just roll the dice a ton and get more capable long distance guys before they get burned out on the track.
Meanwhile out in America, almost every track athlete holds onto the track distances until they are washed/old before venturing into the HM+. And then the ones who swap early enough to still have a chance have 0 support because all the other athletes and coaches are focused on shorter distance.
It's just a cultural difference like the other guy said.
This post was edited 2 minutes after it was posted.
American societal pressure puts more emphasis on career and money and as a result many give up sports and exercise after college. If every NCAA XC qualifier trained to at least age 25 and ran a marathon we’d have plenty of sun 2:08 guys. Instead, out of the 300 racers in any given year, 10 go pro on the track, 5 go pro on the roads, maybe another 10 keep chasing the dream and the rest retire. How many seniors from the 2022 NCAA XC champs graduated and are still running/training today?
Same reason Japan has about zero international 1500m or 800m runners or good xc runners. Culture and what is important to both.
In the US most kids come up through the HS ranks running xc, 800m, 1600m and 3200m races. The college system - xc is a.bid deal and track is about team points and qualifying times so that's what most fall into. Why do you think we have a ton of sub 4 milers?
If you took all the men and women running college xc and put them in a half-marathon on December then you'd see some great performances, but it just isn't offerred.
The following are the national records in athletics in Japan maintained by Japan's Association of Athletics Federations (JAAF). Outdoor Key to tables: Awaiting ratification Record not kept by JAAF Not ratified or later rescin...
Uhhhh…I’m a 31 year old male and former mid-major D1 runner. I work as a key holder at a Road Runner Sports location. Last year, I improved my 5K PR from 14:48 to 14:40. I think that another year or so of double thresholds will catapult me to Olympic contender status. The marathon is for slow old guys! You got to use your speed while you have it.
I think native Japanese men are very genetically suited for long distance, not middle distance. They generally don't have the wheels to produce the blistering kick required to be competitive. That being said, they aren't going to out kick the top dogs at the 5000, 10000 or marathon either, but the Marathon at least offers great payouts for great but not necessarily winning performances. They are simply taking advantage of their genetic strengths and most lucrative opportunities.
What is it about the Japanese running system that is so much better than the USA? Is it genetics or what?
This discussion on the topic of Japanese vs US men's marathoning depth has probably been had to death on letsrun already - given their track times across the board, the answer is no to genetics, and yes to their culture of high mileage, youth development, highly organized and integrated support systems as well as the associated prestige and focus on long distance road races.
Dont forget a plethora of flat and fast races and deep corporate support.
This discussion on the topic of Japanese vs US men's marathoning depth has probably been had to death on letsrun already - given their track times across the board, the answer is no to genetics, and yes to their culture of high mileage, youth development, highly organized and integrated support systems as well as the associated prestige and focus on long distance road races.
I don’t think that superior American track times mean you can dismiss the possibility of a genetic factor. The marathon is suited to small people, and Japanese people are significantly smaller on average than westerners.
Uhhhh…I’m a 31 year old male and former mid-major D1 runner. I work as a key holder at a Road Runner Sports location. Last year, I improved my 5K PR from 14:48 to 14:40. I think that another year or so of double thresholds will catapult me to Olympic contender status. The marathon is for slow old guys! You got to use your speed while you have it.
Had to step outta the game for a minute, but RRS, really dude? You just weren’t Fleet Feet material, huh?
In the US, sponsors want their athletes to make the WCs and the Olympics. They are far less interested in fast 1/2 and marathon times. In Japan, the opposite is true. There is a lot more support for marathoners from sponsors. The result is most of the top talent in distance running in Japan goes to the marathon at age 21 whereas US runners put it off until they have had their shot at several world and Olympic teams. Also, in the US, a lot of money is dedicated to a relatively small number of Olympic hopefuls. In Japan, there is broader support for a larger number of marathoners.
In the US, sponsors want their athletes to make the WCs and the Olympics. They are far less interested in fast 1/2 and marathon times. In Japan, the opposite is true. There is a lot more support for marathoners from sponsors. The result is most of the top talent in distance running in Japan goes to the marathon at age 21 whereas US runners put it off until they have had their shot at several world and Olympic teams. Also, in the US, a lot of money is dedicated to a relatively small number of Olympic hopefuls. In Japan, there is broader support for a larger number of marathoners.
how much money are these guys making? does it come from an org similar to usatf? mizuno, asics?
Yes, the culture and values of a country dictate how they prioritize their resources and is reflected in participation rates. It’s incredibly irritating when people think that we can import something from another country/culture and just implement it here, say drug policy in Portugal, educational practices in Scandinavia, or healthcare in Europe.
There was a time when people in this country ran the marathon quite a bit and I think that some of the younger folks would be surprised to see how many people actually ran under 2:20 during the ‘boom.’
In the US, sponsors want their athletes to make the WCs and the Olympics. They are far less interested in fast 1/2 and marathon times. In Japan, the opposite is true. There is a lot more support for marathoners from sponsors. The result is most of the top talent in distance running in Japan goes to the marathon at age 21 whereas US runners put it off until they have had their shot at several world and Olympic teams. Also, in the US, a lot of money is dedicated to a relatively small number of Olympic hopefuls. In Japan, there is broader support for a larger number of marathoners.
how much money are these guys making? does it come from an org similar to usatf? mizuno, asics?
Almost all of Japan's top distance runners are employed by Japanese corporations which sponsor running teams. Kawauchi is probably the best known exception. These runners are paid a full salary but are only expected to work part time. They're given time off on every workday to train and also are allowed to go away to training camps and races. They make whatever full time employees make for salaries. If they manage to win some prize money it's generally agreed that some will go to their team and some they'll keep.
Dude, RRS pays 50 cents more per hour and offers bennies. I don't have to work Sundays and I dig being called Shoe Dog. I worked for a Fleet Feet once but all they really stocked were On and Brooks. 60% of the customers were housewife power walkers and elderly podiatry referrals. I also got tired of working for the franchise owner - a totally high strung Trumper that constantly griped about his taxes and being an abused small business owner. Guy didn't even run! He heard about FFS at a franchise fair.
And yet they don’t have a bunch of people finishing top 10 at world marathon majors. They all seem to run sub 2:08 on pancake time trial courses in Japan and don’t run fast anywhere else. A 2:07 marathoner from Japan ran twin cities marathon last year and “only” ran 2:11
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