Women pacemakers botch it again in Lausanne?!

Agreed the pacemaking was mediocre. In the women's 800, it looked like some of the runners were fighting for position early on (e.g. Moraa and the Swiss runners trying to get ahead of Hodgkinson), so I wonder to what degree the pacemaker was forced to start too fast simply to get ahead of the racers. (I didn't watch any replays, so not sure if that's actually what happened, but it seems like a tricky thing to handle if you have a notorious fast starter in a short event like the 800 where the pacemaker is only sticking around for a lap or so anyway.)

I also paced a few fast 800m races in my time - the best piece of advice I was ever given - let the field run their own first 150m and start your pacemaking at the 200m point. The field doesn't want to sprint off the line for position then pump the breaks - but they will when given the incentive to. When the pacer bolts off the line it's a domino effect and they all go. The pacemaker should be in lane 8, mid field as they break and then take charge from the 200m point. It's so simple.

The SC I have zero clue what that was, totally inexplicable and makes no sense.

Watching the 5000m now and the guys were out on the lights perfectly and surprise surprise they are now charging ahead of schedule.

and that's why you get performances like 12.40 ;)

Just looking at the race splits... and if they're correct, then the pacemaker (from Poland) tried to follow your advice. She was in fourth place through 200m, got as high as third place at 300m, but never got higher than that. She was asked to pace 57.0, but the Swiss runner (Werro) led them through in 26.0 and 56.7 (then hung on for 1:59.7). Not sure what the pacemaker could have done about that.

Women are in a less conpetitive Environment in all competitions. Such they are less skilled which is also true as pacemakers

As a woman myself, I get so frustrated when the women's race gets messed up just because of the pacer!! This happens less in men's races, in my opinion.
Esp. I watched a college race at Mt. Sac and the pacer should've just dropped out, it was another college student who could run fast enough to pace the top runners in Div 1.

if you already know you're not fast enough, you should humble yourself and drop out. (The pace she was keeping was close to her 800m PR. She was pacing a 1500m race for top runners. You just can't expect to run your PR for a pacing assignment!!) Maybe she was paid for that though, so she didn't think she could drop out, idk.

Dude with all due respect what race are you talking about. In this race - the 2023 Lausanne 800m won by Moraa, the pacemaker was in front of this race at 100m and led the rest of the first lap through 200,300 and 400 meters. The problem was she accelerated away from the front of the blue lights - you can clearly see at 300m in she is about 3 - 3.5 meters ahead of the front of the blue light (which means Moraa and KH were still well ahead of it too) and by 400m Moraa (who is leading the actual race) is right at the front of the yellow line. That means from 300-400m alone the field decelerated I guess at least a second in a 56.65 first lap. That's why they all struggled mightily in the final 150m. Period. Over 400m to accelerate and decelerate that much is just inexcusable.

One of the problems in womens events is that in the 800m they exclusively have 400m runners pacing 800's and 800m runners pacing 1500's and they pacemake the first laps how they run their individual events. In the mens MD events you have Sowinksi pacing 800's because he's an 800m runner and knows exactly what not to do. In the 1500 he get's lead out through 800m by Akbache who surprise surprise is a 1500m runner so also knows what not to do.

The one really well paced race I have seen on the womens side was that 1500m WR where Huerta and Feldmeier really did a good job sticking to the tempo from the gun. Otherwise it's so hit and miss - like tonight.

Dude, with all due respect, I was talking about the race where the on-screen leaderboard lists Werro (a competitor) as in the lead throughout the first lap, and the Polish runner (the rabbit) in third place at highest. That's also what the post-race splits report. On rewatching the race, I see that they obviously got the chips switched, since the Polish runner was in fact in the lead, so you're obviously right about the botched rabbiting job. No need to be a dick about it.

"Women are in a less conpetitive Environment in all competitions. Such they are less skilled which is also true as pacemakers" and the misogyny continues apace on Letsrun. As does the awful spelling.

This is incorrect. Wyciszkiewicz Zawadazka, the pacer, is clearly in front and pacing the field at 300m. She's at the third purple pacing light, with Moraa on her outside, Wero tucked in behind and Hodgkinson between Moraa and the pacer. Each of the aforementioned were at the same wavelight at this point.

By 400m, Wyciszkiewicz Zawadazka was still on the second purple wavelight, but Moraa had dropped five wavelights adrift of Wyciszkiewicz Zawadazka. The pacer was within the prescribed time when the race mattered; Moraa and company failed to follow at the 1:55.77 clip the first green wavelight indicator was set.

props to Pre-Fisher for spelling out Wyciszkiewicz Zawadazka 3x in one post!

in Kipyegon's 3:49.11, announcers said the requested 400m pace was 62.25, Feldmeier hit 62.37 and then at 800 request was 2:03.85 and Sage Hurta hit 2:04:00. Kipyegon was well tucked in behind Hurta. Pacemaking doesn't get much better than that.

letsrun.com

Faith Kipyegon Runs 3:49.11 to Smash Women’s 1500m World Record in Florence

LetsRun.com

The greatest female 1500m runner of all-time is now the fastest.

Link:www.letsrun.com/news/2023/06/faith-kip...

Correct. The pacing was fine in the 800. The issue was the tension that Keely Hodgkinson feels every time she faces Mary Moraa. Hodgkinson is perplexed and intimidated by Moraa so she never runs her typical race. If Moraa hadn't been in that field Hodgkinson would have relaxed smack behind the pacer and everything would have looked normal. Instead Hodgkinson was scared to pass Moraa at the outset of the race and when she attempted several times during lap two she was easily repelled every time, just like last year against Moraa.

Moraa lulled Hodgkinson into contentment during indoor season by twice willingly dropping well behind her. There was no way that was happening outdoors unless Keely was ready to push early like a world championship final.

The curiosity is what happens in Budapest. If Mu is not willing to go out at her normal fast clip then Moraa and Hodgkinson will have quick decisions to make. It wouldn't be shocking if Hodgkinson decides she has to lead Moraa. Then Moraa is determined to join. They both burn themselves out on a desperate backstretch duel and Athing Mu eventually lopes beyond both of them.

Hodgkinson in Lausanne also didn't seem to realize that Werro of Switzerland is a dedicated frontrunner. Werro was exactly where she figured to be, given that pace. Keely allowed herself to get boxed.

Werro is a European clone of Michaela Rose. The pace dynamic of major 800 races will be considerably more interesting when both of them mature a bit more toward global final caliber. It's not too far away.

No it wasn't. Watch the tape - pause the race at 32 seconds. Like literally do that.

She is 5 meters ahead of the front of the blue light - and remember the prescribed pace for the field is the first yellow light. Moraa, Werro, Hodgkinson and Goule are all ahead of the first blue light at this point - the are out WAY too fast. The key point being that at 400m Moraa is now right back at the first yellow light so in that 150-160m section coming into the bell they have lost almost 7-8 meters from where they were relative to the pace at 230m.

That is junk pacemaking. And sure it's not as evidently bad as the steeplechase was but considering she only has 400m to run and now has a light to help her there is no excuse. Never ever should a pacemaker be multiple meters up on wavelight - that's the whole point of it. We are all sitting here marvelling at the 5000m races we are watching and it's blatantly obvious why they are so good.

Now is this the reason why Hodgkinson lost to Moraa? I don't know. I do know why on a night that was absolutely perfect for distance running this why they ran a decidedly average 1.57.4 (Muir ran 1.57.3 at a BMC race in front of 25 people at Trafford 3 nights earlier).

Why do I need to pause the race? I was there. The wavelights were set for the meeting record of 1:56.25 (my mistake earlier stating they couldn't follow the 1:55.77 pace). The lights were set for 57.00 and 1:11.50. Absolutely 300m into the race, the pacing was spot on.

There are some sports that require more intelligence than others. Unfortunately, running isn't one of them.

Moraa was very slow indoors (2:01.51, 2:00.61 against KH and even slower in Madrid with 2:02.85) - I don't know why she competed indoors at all (as a race filler probably) and why she was not competitive . It was not "twice willingly dropping".

First thing is that 'Race analysis' by Diamond League AG^^ is erroneous, UNBELIEVABLE. Looks like chips of this 19yo Swiss talent Audrey Werro and pacemaker were swapped (Aneta Lemiesz is better Polish rabbit). Thus no splits for Werro after 500.

Secondly lights for the 800 distance are irrelevant in my opinion.

Pacing was ok, maybe just a little bit too fast, 56.65 to 57 setpoint. First 200 was too fast with them fighting to position themselves (also Moraa strategy).

Since ~350 (I don't feel these distances on outdoor track) Moraa was slowing them down. After ~380/400 KH should have gone with her 'normal' fast pace that she is capable of without problem but first was boxed and then didn't do it. The race was too slow between 400-500. Then KH began to accelerate but without confidence and not enough, the race was too slow at this point. Moraa accelerated then slowed down on the bend in my opinion and was running wide, KH trying again and powerless on the home straight (rather a surprise for me)

Of course KH can't let Moraa dictate variable pace like this. But it's easy to say.

Sorry. I didn't check splits from Paris vs. Lausanne.

Paris KH: 57.7 at 400, 1:12.2 at 500, 1:26.5 at 600, 1:40.8 at 700.

Lausanne MM (KH): 57.4 (57.5), 1:12.7 (1:12.8), 1:27.7 (1:27.8), 1:42.7 (1:43.0)

Is this a message board "candid camera" thing here? Are you the Polish girls agent or something?

Congrats on being there - you're not the only one who's been to more than a few live Golden/Diamond League events and you are telling me that you were able to at that split second she was on pace as it happened?

At exactly 280m the pacemaker was at 38.2 seconds and was about 3 meters ahead of the first blue light. That is 100% fact. Here's a link just as she's approaching the 280m point which you will see designated by the relay acceleration zone marking (in yellow), showing she's 20m before the 300m point.

She's not on pace. She's on 54.6 second pace which means that she and the field slowed markedly in the final 100m to get close to her 56.7 split. The pacing isn't spot on - just because she hit's 400m in the designated time is irrelevant. Would it have been spot on if she went out in 25 seconds and passed in 56.7?

Done arguing this - the pacing sucked.