Martina Navratilova praises WA & proposes the perfect solution to the trans debate. Two categories - Open and biological female

rojo wrote:

I've seen others in Britain have proposed this in the past but this makes sense. Maybe it will pick up some steam since it was proposed by a lesbian icon in the Times of London in an op-ed on Sunday.

Martina wrote:

"In the wake of World Athletics’ announcement, I think the best idea would be to have ‘biological female’ and ‘biological girls’ categories and then an ‘open’ category. It would be a category for all-comers: men who identify as men; women who identify as women; women who identify as men; men who identify as women; non-binary — it would be a catch-all. This is already being explored in athletics and swimming in Britain.

"Biological females are most likely to compete in the biological female category, as that’s their best shot at winning and it maintains the principle of fairness. With an ‘open’ category there are no question marks, no provisos, no asterisks, no doubts. It’s a simple solution.

Her piece:

Link:www.thetimes.co.uk/article/navratilova...

Summary from MSN:

Link:www.msn.com/en-us/sports/other/martina...

RunRagged wrote:

A "female only" and "open" category works for sports like athletics. But it doesn't work across the board for individual sports like wrestling, boxing and judo, or for team sports that involve tackling, body blows and pile-ons like rugby and American football. Nor does it work for other sports that involve a lot of rough physical contact such as checking, elbowing and accidental collisions; ; or which involve the likelihood of players hitting each other with implements like hockey and lacrosse sticks, or being struck in the head or neck by projectiles traveling at high speed like balls and pucks.

The focus of my posts on LRC is mainly on insuring safety and fairness for female people who do sports by confining the girls' and women's category to those who are female. But I also believe that it would be unfair to male athletes if all the sports that guys do were forced to become mixed-sex.

Some sports like volleyball, field hockey and tennis doubles already have rules for mixed-sex play that insure fairness and safety for female players whilst still trying to keep play challenging enough for male players. But let's face it, the experiences of playing and watching mixed-sex volleyball, field hockey and tennis doubles are very different to playing and watching female-only and male-only matches in these sports.

I think that boys and men should be able to practice and play volleyball, field hockey, tennis doubles, rugby, ice hockey, basketball, soccer, American football, water polo and other sports amongst themselves in siutations and according to rules that don't require them to hold back or make allowances and accommodations for the different physical size, strength, speed and susceptibility to injury of female team mates or opponents.

I think that boys and men who do sports should be able to take a leak, change their clothes, shower, take saunas and steam baths, etc. and engage in "locker room banter" in facilities that are male-only too.

another day another troll thread wrote:

This thread will draw the trolls like flies to dung. For now at the WA/national governing body level, it looks to be a done deal. I don't even know why rojo is starting yet another thread other than he's incredibly insecure about it all. Poor entitled spoon feed baby!

If that's the decision, that's the decision and it will likely stick unless there is forthcoming scientific evidence that definitively documents that M to F transgender runners under hormone suppressants and surgery do indeed perform at a level of about 12% or less than they would as males (after a given number of years, not 12 months as was the case). Fine.

Nevertheless, and that idea won't be popular with rojo and the troll set here, but there is nothing to stop major races or sponsors to support non-binary categories, and maybe more than one. I'll laugh when indeed, a race like the NYC Marathon does just that and perhaps expands the prize money.

GD wrote:

RunRagged wrote:

A "female only" and "open" category works for sports like athletics. But it doesn't work across the board for individual sports like wrestling, boxing and judo, or for team sports that involve tackling, body blows and pile-ons like rugby and American football. Nor does it work for other sports that involve a lot of rough physical contact such as checking, elbowing and accidental collisions; ; or which involve the likelihood of players hitting each other with implements like hockey and lacrosse sticks, or being struck in the head or neck by projectiles traveling at high speed like balls and pucks.

The focus of my posts on LRC is mainly on insuring safety and fairness for female people who do sports by confining the girls' and women's category to those who are female. But I also believe that it would be unfair to male athletes if all the sports that guys do were forced to become mixed-sex.

Some sports like volleyball, field hockey and tennis doubles already have rules for mixed-sex play that insure fairness and safety for female players whilst still trying to keep play challenging enough for male players. But let's face it, the experiences of playing and watching mixed-sex volleyball, field hockey and tennis doubles are very different to playing and watching female-only and male-only matches in these sports.

I think that boys and men should be able to practice and play volleyball, field hockey, tennis doubles, rugby, ice hockey, basketball, soccer, American football, water polo and other sports amongst themselves in siutations and according to rules that don't require them to hold back or make allowances and accommodations for the different physical size, strength, speed and susceptibility to injury of female team mates or opponents.

I think that boys and men who do sports should be able to take a leak, change their clothes, shower, take saunas and steam baths, etc. and engage in "locker room banter" in facilities that are male-only too.

This reminds me of a recent interview with Mary Harrington in which she says that people need to "leave men the *uck alone." It's an argument for allowing men to have male-only spaces for socialization.