38 sub-4's by 1955?

Not true.

If not true... from what I understand... close to true

not even close

6 May 54 Roger Bannister UK 3:59.4 m 3:58.8 m 7 Aug 54

21 Jun 54 John Landy Aus 3:57.9 m

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28 May 55 László Tábori Hun 3:59.0 m

28 May 55 Chris Chataway UK 3:59.8 m

28 May 55 Brian Hewson UK 3:59.8 m 3:58.9 m 3 Sep 58

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5 May 56 Jim Bailey Aus 3:58.6 m

1 Jun 56 Ronnie Delany Ire 3:59.0 m 3:57.5 m 6 Aug 58

1 Jun 56 Gunnar Nielsen Den 3:59.1 m

6 Aug 56 Derek Ibbotson UK 3:59.4 m 3:57.2 m 19 Jul 57

26 Aug 56 István Rózsavölgyi Hun 3:59.0 m

========= (10)

23 Mar 57 Merv Lincoln Aus 3:58.9 m 3:55.9 m 6 Aug 58

1 Jun 57 Don Bowden USA 3:58.7 m

19 Jul 57 Stanislav Jungwirth Cze 3:59.1 m

19 Jul 57 Ken Wood UK 3:59.3 m

19 Jul 57 Dan Waern Swe 3:59.3 m 3:58.5 m 4 Sep 57

7 Aug 57 Olavi Vuorisalo Fin 3:59.1 m

4 Sep 57 Roger Moens Bel 3:58.9 m

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25 Jan 58 Herb Elliott Aus 3:59.9 m 3:54.5 m 6 Aug 58

6 Aug 58 Murray Halberg NZ 3:57.5 m

6 Aug 58 Albie Thomas Aus 3:58.6 m 3:58.3 m 21 Mar 64

(20)

3 Sep 58 Zbigniew Orywal Pol 3:59.7 m

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28 May 59 Siegfried Valentin Ger 3:56.5 m

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23 Apr 60 Dyrol Burleson USA 3:58.6 m 3:55.6 m 7 Jun 63

28 May 60 Jim Beatty USA 3:58.0 m 3:55.5 m 7 Jun 63

23 Sep 60 Terry Sullivan Rho 3:59.8 m

23 Sep 60 Gordon Pirie UK 3:59.9 m

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27 Jan 62 Peter Snell NZ 3:54.4 m 3:54.03 17 Nov 64

27 Jan 62 Bruce Tulloh UK 3:59.3 m

25 Feb 62 Siegfried Herrmann Ger 3:59.9 mi 3:58.6 mi 21 Feb 65

28 Apr 62 Jim Grelle USA 3:59.9 m 3:55.4 m 15 Jun 65

(30)

26 May 62 Keith Forman USA 3:58.3 m

26 May 62 Cary Weisiger USA 3:59.3 m 3:56.6 m 7 Jun 63

23 Jun 62 Bill Dotson USA 3:59.0 m

18 Aug 62 Stan Taylor UK 3:58.01

18 Aug 62 Bob Seaman USA 3:58.07

18 Aug 62 Mike Berisford UK 3:59.24

21 Aug 62 Olavi Salonen Fin 3:59.1 m

3 Oct 62 Michel Jazy Fra 3:59.8 m 3:53.6 m 9 Jun 65

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15 Feb 63 John Davies NZ 3:58.8 m 3:56.80 3 Jul 65

One, 37, pretty much the same thing I guess. Thanks.

No way.

I've heard several versions on of this story. Just last month, I heard a "motivational speaker" claim that 7,000 runners broke 4 minutes for the mile in 1955. I was too polite to correct him.

As realchk points out, exactly three runners dipped under 4 minutes in 1955, and only a handful more broke 4 for the remainder of the decade.

Sports psychologist types are really fond of talking about the 4-minute mile barrier because they think it demonstrates that our perceived physical limits are in fact psychological barriers that can be overcome by simply changing how we think.

Although there is some truth to what they say, the length of time it took to break the 4-minute mile barrier doesn't prove their point as much as they think it does. It's true that Haag's record stood at 4:01 for 12 years before Bannister broke it with his 3:59.4. But there's a simple, non-psychological reason for that: World War II! The world saw 12 years with no Olympic games, great hardship, and literally tens of millions of young men dying. It wasn't a time for concentrating on running around a track. As the Western world recovered from World War II, people started re-focusing on sports and track times (in all distances) started to drop gain. When you look at Bannister's achievement in that context, the 4-minute mile doesn't looks quite as remarkable.

Brent is exactly right...however, I'd say that Bannister's first sub-4 was most definitely "remarkable," but would simply add that it was also inevitable.

I have to play devil's advocate here:

OK, I have no idea about this, but how many TIMES was 4 min. broken by the end of 1955. Bannister had at least a second time in the race he beat Landy in later in 1954.

Landy had already broken 4 and did so again in the race with

Bannister. So, in 1954, 4 min. was broken at least 4 times.

I am guessing we will still not get to 38, but...

Can anybody add more facts to this thought?

sorry, by the end of 1955 sub-4 had still only been run seven times. By the end of 56 it had been run 16 times, by 57 it had been done 30 times and by the end of 1958 the figure was up to 49.

By the end of 2002 the four minute barrier had been broken 4,681 times - by 946 athletes.

the stat my former ceo used in a speech was that 200 broke 4 minutes within a year of bannister. he should've known better as he was a 14:30 guy in college. i was never able to get an exact number on how many did it within a year of bannister, but i knew that 200 was joke, and it was probably more like single digits.

Hey, everyone thanks for the info.

I too have read this garbage several times about the "explosion" of sub 4:00 times that followed Bannister's breakthrough. I always knew it was wrong (and had seen about 10 different outrageous figures on how many others did it) but I never realized, until today, HOW outrageous these claims were. Unfriggin'-believable! This is one of the biggest entrenched myths out there I am beginning to realize. I wonder who started this myth, anyone know??? Because obviously once someone started it, it sounded cool, and others just repeated it. Like I said, I have read this a LOT. Very interesting.

So....what is the verdict? Within on year of Banni's sub 4, ONE other person did it too? (Landy), and within 2 years, it was a total of 4 others (Landy, Tabori, Chataway, Hewson) ? WOW, what an "explosion" of breakthroughs. And Landy ran sub 3:58 in '54? Looks like having one man break through THAT psychological barrier didn't help too many other runners since no one else ran sub 3:58 for 4 more years.

Funny stuff.

Little known fact - Chris Chataway who paced Bannister to his sub-4 also paced Landy.

Chataway admitted he felt slightly sorry for Landy after Bannister's breakthrough run so he wrote to Landy and offered his services as a pacemaker. Landy took up the offer and Chataway helped him run take Bannister's record just a month after it had been set.

Bannister of course beat Landy in 'the mile of the century' at the Empire Games in August that same year.

Please remember that 57.8% of all facts are incorrect or made up. On the internet it's even higher~72.5%

arent you funny and original

Sir Lance-alot wrote:

Unfriggin'-believable! This is one of the biggest entrenched myths out there I am beginning to realize. I wonder who started this myth, anyone know???

Funny stuff.

I did bitch, now stfu before you blow my cover

Bazza wrote:

Little known fact - Chris Chataway who paced Bannister to his sub-4 also paced Landy.

Chataway admitted he felt slightly sorry for Landy after Bannister's breakthrough run so he wrote to Landy and offered his services as a pacemaker. Landy took up the offer and Chataway helped him run take Bannister's record just a month after it had been set.

Bannister of course beat Landy in 'the mile of the century' at the Empire Games in August that same year.

actually if you read the book "the perfect mile" it says chataway was racing landy, not pacing him.

thechamelion wrote:

actually if you read the book "the perfect mile" it says chataway was racing landy, not pacing him.

Right. Chataway, although knowing racing Landy would likely push him to a sub-4:00 as well, went there hoping to beat Landy. His hard training with Bannister had Chataway in great shape for close to 4:00. Keep in mind Chataway would have medaled, possibly won, the 1952 Olympics 5K had he not fallen less than 200m from the finish.

The reason I bump this thread though is to pose a related question: given modern training methods, nutrition, equipment, ability to focus full-time as a professional, knowledge that humans can run as fast as 3:43, etc - how fast do you think these same men (Bannister/Landy) would have run in the mile?

Didn't Chris Brashear (sp?) pace Bannister?

Bazza wrote:

sorry, by the end of 1955 sub-4 had still only been run seven times. By the end of 56 it had been run 16 times, by 57 it had been done 30 times and by the end of 1958 the figure was up to 49.

By the end of 2002 the four minute barrier had been broken 4,681 times - by 946 athletes.

Wow, I never heard of that statistic before.

Do you know of any websites with this info

or concerning just Americans and sub 4 at least? There used to be one that showed each year and which Americans broke 4 for the first time, but I don't remember where it is.

well... wrote:

thechamelion wrote:

actually if you read the book "the perfect mile" it says chataway was racing landy, not pacing him.

Right. Chataway, although knowing racing Landy would likely push him to a sub-4:00 as well, went there hoping to beat Landy. His hard training with Bannister had Chataway in great shape for close to 4:00. Keep in mind Chataway would have medaled, possibly won, the 1952 Olympics 5K had he not fallen less than 200m from the finish.

The reason I bump this thread though is to pose a related question: given modern training methods, nutrition, equipment, ability to focus full-time as a professional, knowledge that humans can run as fast as 3:43, etc - how fast do you think these same men (Bannister/Landy) would have run in the mile?

Bannister would have run the same. Remember, he only ever wanted to be a doctor. Who knows on Landy. He did a fair amount more training than most other athletes of his day.