Show me the 3 page thread where people are wondering why Grant Fisher is dodging the competition this indoor season. Show me the thread were people are saying that it must be because he's lazy, unmotivated, and scared to lose. It would be nice if you guys had the cajones to just admit that you are disappointed she is not running because it is a lossed opportunity to watch her possibly lose. To get knocked down a peg. The fans here, mostly American, will only back an "American" mid or distance star when that star looks like Fisher, Bol, or Hogkinson. Its tribalism, and you guys suscribe to it. So have fun, come championship time, keeping your fingers crossed and cheering for Keely to pull out the victory. Then you guys will come on here to say "what a great time to be a fan of track and field. "
Fisher is running in the Lieven 3,000 next week which is the most competitive indoor 3K in the world annually. And do you live under a rock, BTC gets excoriated for a lack of racing, as do people like Hocker/Teare. None of them would be getting nearly the same amount of excuses Mu is getting right now, absolutely ridiculous post.
BTC gets criticized because other than a couple of steeplers and an African-born Canadian, they're mediocre globally, and one could argue that lack of racing has led to some failures to make teams and medal on the world stage.
Athing is already a legend if she quits today.
I'm not defending her -- I'm just pointing out the difference.
(FYI Fisher is racing Lievin this month which is usually the most competitive 3k in the world during indoors, and where Hogkinson v Moraa is going down).
Hodgkinson vs Moraa is in Toruń in Poland tomorrow.
Lievin is next week and Hodgkinson will also race there, but I don't know about Moraa.
As a long-time fan of T&F, these things bother me. Since WA is taking pages from tennis's book (e.g., with the ranking system), let's compare. Imagine if Djokovic or Nadal did not want to compete against each other. Well, it does not really happen. Avoiding top tournaments means you get 0 points in the highest ranked tournaments and that drops you in the rankings. Going down in the rankings means you may need to play qualifiers. When a tennis player misses a tournament they committed to, it's 0 points (even if they are injured, I think). They always report injuries. And I never heard a tennis coach say they owe nothing to tennis fans. Tennis coaches would not have a job without tennis fans.
You cannot ask the top athletes to be competing week in and week out. But running barely 3 or 4 times per year is crazy and disrespectful for the fans. Imagine if Lebron decided he did not want to play more than just 5 or 6 games per season, while in his prime. Or that he opted not to play against teams that may beat his team. For some reason, athletes in other sports are not as afraid of losing, or may take that as a motivation; but this seems to be different with many T&F athletes.
Mu may have her acceptable reasons to do this (I don't think saying I want to be in great shape for outdoor is not one of those). But I say be open about it or be penalized for doing that. It is unprofessional.
As another poster mentioned, World Cup skiing might be a better analogy. Many skiers consider winning an overall World Cup title and event specific World Cup titles equal to or more important than winning the Olympics in an event once every 4 years, and definitely more important than winning the every other year world championships. The World Cup season is long (Oct through March) and all the stars compete in almost all of the races of the events they ski. Certainly Mu is not a bigger star than Shiffrin, yet Shiffrin is out there week after week, race after race. How and why are the incentives and culture of ski racing so much different than T&F? Of course, the physical demands of the sports are different, but nobody can suggest that the physical nature of the 800 racing and training is such that it’s mandatory to only race a couple of times in prep for three wc rounds at the end of the summer for optimal results? We are going to have one of our greatest stars out on the track so little? The sport is barely hanging on, and no reason to expect otherwise if this is what goes on.
Show me the 3 page thread where people are wondering why Grant Fisher is dodging the competition this indoor season. Show me the thread were people are saying that it must be because he's lazy, unmotivated, and scared to lose. It would be nice if you guys had the cajones to just admit that you are disappointed she is not running because it is a lossed opportunity to watch her possibly lose. To get knocked down a peg. The fans here, mostly American, will only back an "American" mid or distance star when that star looks like Fisher, Bol, or Hogkinson. Its tribalism, and you guys suscribe to it. So have fun, come championship time, keeping your fingers crossed and cheering for Keely to pull out the victory. Then you guys will come on here to say "what a great time to be a fan of track and field. "
Fisher is running in the Lieven 3,000 next week which is the most competitive indoor 3K in the world annually. And do you live under a rock, BTC gets excoriated for a lack of racing, as do people like Hocker/Teare. None of them would be getting nearly the same amount of excuses Mu is getting right now, absolutely ridiculous post.
Grant did doge the top americans this winter, its not good for the sport. Showing up to BU (where he lost his national record), NBGP, or Millrose would have been better. Even if Grant breaks the record in Lieven, it won't be as hyped and people will wonder if Nuguse could have beaten him head to head. Americans should not be skipping the top american meets to compete in non-DL European events.
Fisher is running in the Lieven 3,000 next week which is the most competitive indoor 3K in the world annually. And do you live under a rock, BTC gets excoriated for a lack of racing, as do people like Hocker/Teare. None of them would be getting nearly the same amount of excuses Mu is getting right now, absolutely ridiculous post.
Grant did doge the top americans this winter, its not good for the sport. Showing up to BU (where he lost his national record), NBGP, or Millrose would have been better. Even if Grant breaks the record in Lieven, it won't be as hyped and people will wonder if Nuguse could have beaten him head to head. Americans should not be skipping the top american meets to compete in non-DL European events.
Some of you will literally never be happy. Last year Grant got criticized for running BU time trials, now hes getting criticized for running against the best in the world in Europe. Its exhausting.
Considering he crushed everyone in North America last year, not unreasonable for him to decide to go over to Europe to race against the best that Africa has to offer.
Grant did doge the top americans this winter, its not good for the sport. Showing up to BU (where he lost his national record), NBGP, or Millrose would have been better. Even if Grant breaks the record in Lieven, it won't be as hyped and people will wonder if Nuguse could have beaten him head to head. Americans should not be skipping the top american meets to compete in non-DL European events.
Some of you will literally never be happy. Last year Grant got criticized for running BU time trials, now hes getting criticized for running against the best in the world in Europe. Its exhausting.
Considering he crushed everyone in North America last year, not unreasonable for him to decide to go over to Europe to race against the best that Africa has to offer.
You misunderstand why he was criticised for the BU time trials, its because he used them to doge world indoors and the american indoor champs (the qualifying meet). This year there was no world indoor champs, and its a great year for BU time trials, but in the infinite wisdom of BTC, they had grant skip record attempts at BU, and he lost his 5k record and 3k record. He's also not listed on the ten start list. Like if you are going to doge world XC, at the very minimum he should be at the ten.
We don't know why Athing pulled out. Perhaps she IS injured. But in most sports, if a top athlete pulled out of a major competition because of injury, they'd be expected to say so, or provide some real explanation.
The other major sport I follow is downhill skiing. It's like most sports - football, basketball, soccer. There is a competition season, and most athletes participate in most of the competitions. (A slalom racer might not do a downhill race and vice versa, but a downhill racer will do ALL the downhill races.) Because of this format, you get to know not only the stars but the next tier of athletes also. I have been a running fan for a couple of decades, but I have a hard time keeping up with who the athletes are. Without Letsrun, it'd be hopeless. They compete infrequently, and when they do complete, it's often hard to watch. In other sports, you might need to get one or two subscriptions to watch ALL the competitions. In running, every time there's a meet, I need to figure out anew how to watch that particular meet, and usually the coverage is poor.
I digress. But basically, our sport is lame. Athing Mu isn't doing anything other athletes in track and field don't do. But it wouldn't fly in other popular sports, and it makes it hard to be a fan.
Downhill skiing is a "major sport"? Where, in Austria? LOL
(FYI Fisher is racing Lievin this month which is usually the most competitive 3k in the world during indoors, and where Hogkinson v Moraa is going down).
Hodgkinson vs Moraa is in Toruń in Poland tomorrow.
Lievin is next week and Hodgkinson will also race there, but I don't know about Moraa.
And if you think they're writing negatively disproportionately about Mu, what till after Moraa competes, no matter the outcome. The message board is such a hole.
We don't know why Athing pulled out. Perhaps she IS injured. But in most sports, if a top athlete pulled out of a major competition because of injury, they'd be expected to say so, or provide some real explanation.
The other major sport I follow is downhill skiing. It's like most sports - football, basketball, soccer. There is a competition season, and most athletes participate in most of the competitions. (A slalom racer might not do a downhill race and vice versa, but a downhill racer will do ALL the downhill races.) Because of this format, you get to know not only the stars but the next tier of athletes also. I have been a running fan for a couple of decades, but I have a hard time keeping up with who the athletes are. Without Letsrun, it'd be hopeless. They compete infrequently, and when they do complete, it's often hard to watch. In other sports, you might need to get one or two subscriptions to watch ALL the competitions. In running, every time there's a meet, I need to figure out anew how to watch that particular meet, and usually the coverage is poor.
I digress. But basically, our sport is lame. Athing Mu isn't doing anything other athletes in track and field don't do. But it wouldn't fly in other popular sports, and it makes it hard to be a fan.
Agree with this, it's crazy that T&F athletes just get a total pass when they pull out of events. I can't think of any individual or team sport where an athlete doesn't have to offer even a boilerplate explanation for withdrawing from a commitment. I'm not expecting photos like Wightman gave us, but a statement about illness or injury would be better than just "sorry, can't make it"
Actually, the explanation is even worse. Her stated reason for pulling out is to prepare for outdoors. Ok, so why enter the meet in the first place?
Either something changed in the past week (injury, another competor entering' etc.) or her team just doesn't know what they are doing.
We don't know why Athing pulled out. Perhaps she IS injured. But in most sports, if a top athlete pulled out of a major competition because of injury, they'd be expected to say so, or provide some real explanation.
The other major sport I follow is downhill skiing. It's like most sports - football, basketball, soccer. There is a competition season, and most athletes participate in most of the competitions. (A slalom racer might not do a downhill race and vice versa, but a downhill racer will do ALL the downhill races.) Because of this format, you get to know not only the stars but the next tier of athletes also. I have been a running fan for a couple of decades, but I have a hard time keeping up with who the athletes are. Without Letsrun, it'd be hopeless. They compete infrequently, and when they do complete, it's often hard to watch. In other sports, you might need to get one or two subscriptions to watch ALL the competitions. In running, every time there's a meet, I need to figure out anew how to watch that particular meet, and usually the coverage is poor.
I digress. But basically, our sport is lame. Athing Mu isn't doing anything other athletes in track and field don't do. But it wouldn't fly in other popular sports, and it makes it hard to be a fan.
Downhill skiing is a "major sport"? Where, in Austria? LOL
Yes, in Europe 10s of thousands of people trek out to remote snowy villages to watch it.
Around 90,000 people attend Kitzbuhel every year, for example, and it's a lot harder to get there than you're local football (or track) stadium.
Mu has been smelling herself for a while and it is not a recent thing. There have been a lot of things pulling her in different directions since Tokyo which is to be expected with her incredible success. Mu's conditioning has not been the same since 2021; she barely won that 800m at the 2022 World Championships and was conspicuously left off of the 4x4. For those of you pointing out she is dodging Wilson, that's absolutely false a 100% fit Mu could probably run 1:21x, she ran 1:23x at age 17 as a high school junior when her 800m pr was around 2:02. A 90% fit Mu could win Millrose. With that said, I do suspect after seeing Hodgkinson break the world record, her camp probably does not want her to run slower than that. The rumor I heard from someone connected to someone connected to her group is training is going ok, she is healthy, but she is behind schedule for where she should be. McLaughlin was asked at the New Balance Gran Prix if she and Mu ever train together, Sydney said no and gave what appeared to be a prepared explanation. I also heard she is developing into her womanhood, exploring other interest, etc., which is ok and natural, but female athletes need to maintain their tomboyishness and at this stage in a career focus almost exclusively on athletics.
Agree with this, it's crazy that T&F athletes just get a total pass when they pull out of events. I can't think of any individual or team sport where an athlete doesn't have to offer even a boilerplate explanation for withdrawing from a commitment. I'm not expecting photos like Wightman gave us, but a statement about illness or injury would be better than just "sorry, can't make it"
As a long-time fan of T&F, these things bother me. Since WA is taking pages from tennis's book (e.g., with the ranking system), let's compare. Imagine if Djokovic or Nadal did not want to compete against each other. Well, it does not really happen. Avoiding top tournaments means you get 0 points in the highest ranked tournaments and that drops you in the rankings. Going down in the rankings means you may need to play qualifiers. When a tennis player misses a tournament they committed to, it's 0 points (even if they are injured, I think). They always report injuries. And I never heard a tennis coach say they owe nothing to tennis fans. Tennis coaches would not have a job without tennis fans.
You cannot ask the top athletes to be competing week in and week out. But running barely 3 or 4 times per year is crazy and disrespectful for the fans. Imagine if Lebron decided he did not want to play more than just 5 or 6 games per season, while in his prime. Or that he opted not to play against teams that may beat his team. For some reason, athletes in other sports are not as afraid of losing, or may take that as a motivation; but this seems to be different with many T&F athletes.
Mu may have her acceptable reasons to do this (I don't think saying I want to be in great shape for outdoor is not one of those). But I say be open about it or be penalized for doing that. It is unprofessional.
Speaking of tennis: I watched the Australian Open, and seeing Andy Murray playing back-to-back, 5 set matches that lasted over 4 hours each (and he has a metal hip) really brought home how precious T&F athletes are. Tennis players are out there grinding hard week after week on the WTA and ATP tours while runners run a three and a half minute race three or four times a year and complain about being exhausted.. T&F athletes complain about lack of money and lack of attention but won't do the same level of work that athletes in big money sports do.
I've said this before: WA needs to develop a system where only ranking points can get an athlete into World's and the Olympics. No more getting the standard then hiding in training camps. You race or you don't get to go to the big show. That's how tennis works: you get ranking points by playing, or you don't get into the majors unless you get very lucky with a wild card. Tennis is a thriving commercial sport, T&F is on life support because it's best athletes apparently owe the fans nothing.
This post was edited 2 minutes after it was posted.
Mu has been smelling herself for a while and it is not a recent thing. There have been a lot of things pulling her in different directions since Tokyo which is to be expected with her incredible success. Mu's conditioning has not been the same since 2021; she barely won that 800m at the 2022 World Championships and was conspicuously left off of the 4x4. For those of you pointing out she is dodging Wilson, that's absolutely false a 100% fit Mu could probably run 1:21x, she ran 1:23x at age 17 as a high school junior when her 800m pr was around 2:02. A 90% fit Mu could win Millrose. With that said, I do suspect after seeing Hodgkinson break the world record, her camp probably does not want her to run slower than that. The rumor I heard from someone connected to someone connected to her group is training is going ok, she is healthy, but she is behind schedule for where she should be. McLaughlin was asked at the New Balance Gran Prix if she and Mu ever train together, Sydney said no and gave what appeared to be a prepared explanation. I also heard she is developing into her womanhood, exploring other interest, etc., which is ok and natural, but female athletes need to maintain their tomboyishness and at this stage in a career focus almost exclusively on athletics.
I find this a little surprising, but I believe she has run at a high level since she was very young - maybe mental burnout would be inevitable at some point? In reference to the 4 x 4 at WC, I think the reason she didn’t run it was because it was so close after the 800 final like less than an hour. Not a performance issue. I am curious why she left the training situation she had with her former college coach to work with Kersee who does not have a background coaching mid-D and if she doesn’t train with SML then who does she train with?
if she doesn’t train with SML then who does she train with?
Athing Mu doesn't have a training partner in LA. She's the only female 800 runner that Bobby Kersee coaches.
Athing Mu did have two 800 women at Texas A&M that she kind of trained with sometimes, but a lot of her workouts were on her own, so there isn’t that much of a difference between last year and now.
I am curious why she left the training situation she had with her former college coach to work with Kersee who does not have a background coaching mid-D
I asked someone in the middle distance group at Texas A&M that question and I was told that it was actually Brandon Miller who wanted to make the move to Bobby Kersee and Athing went along with it.