How young is TOO young?

yeah, Briana Jackucewicz hammered me in a five-miler a few weekends ago in Haddonfield

little freaking twerp

oh, seven days earlier, she ran a hard track 5,000 at the National Scholastic Indoors at the Armory

Funny how her older sister got Compartment Syndrome. And funny how the article said it was "unrelated to overuse". Which is total bullshit. We all know that's an overuse issue.

How many times are we going to see young girls doing too much too young? What this guy is doing to his daughters is sick. She runs more miles than most high school boys. I would like to know why the father thinks his training schedule is so great. She will never be a good high school runner. Well, maybe her freshmen year.

The guy should go see a shrink about his parenting.

What are her times for the races she does. I just read through the article

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/04/20/sports/othersports/20RUN.html?pagewanted=1&ei=5062&en=7ec6cd1188dc2345&ex=1051416000&partner=GOOGLE

which actually describes how women suffer from early age overtraining much more than men would. I wish Brianna the best because she could be a great runner, but I am not so sure she will last if she continues to train the way she does. Granted her dad really feels he is doing the right thing (for a normal person), but at the same time a person who is obsessive compulsive (most runners) needs to be held back not pushed forward. Anyway thats my 2 cents.

For me, this is an easy question; no competitive running before middle school years. In middle school, only 3 outside (of school) comps. I fear too much too soon for kids not capable of making good choices themselves.

I know a number of adults that 'coach' kids and some kids that've graduated from age-groupers to adult runners but not w/out gaps in their enthusiasm. I don't immediately say the gap is due to age-group running but feel it played a big part.

I'm opposed to age-group running and have never gone to a meet. As a do-as-I-say example, my son didn't take a step of organized running until high school and I'm convinced he's better off for it.

Tough call, but I wouldn?t call it abusive. No greater of a time commitment than kids put into soccer, or music lessons/daily practice (which are frequently parent-driven).

Age group works well for sprinters. The pluses are fun, peer group social aspects, and the stability of being around success-oriented people. The best examples of female age-groupers who ultimately succeeded at middle/long stuff were running track, and shorter events when younger (see Jacobs and Decker). They should all run, jump, and throw. Specialization comes later.

Hope she enjoys it now, though. Correlation to future success = 0 based on all who went before.

dsk wrote:

What are her times for the races she does.

Did a quick search, not sure if these are bests.

5K - 17:42 age 11

18:13 - Freihofer's 53rd, Saratoga Springs Nicole Blood ran 17:57

5-Mile - 31:09 - age 9

10-Mile - 1:02:06 - age 11

Falmouth Road Race 7.6-Mile - 42:41 (30th OA) - age 11

Looks like Paula Radcliffe's "MiniMe"

Manchester Road Race 4.75 - 28:25 - age 11

1500m indoor - 4:52.09 Feb. 8, 2003

3000m indoor - 10:15.39 Feb. 2, 2003

2-mile indoor - 11:24.85 Feb. 22, 2003

Scroll down above link, her Daddy sure looks like he does a lot of running - to and from the refrigerator

Checked up those Garritsons mentioned earlier:

Carrie - 35:21 10K as a 10-year-old, 2:49:19 marathon at age 11. Footlocker results: Freshman 11,Soph 6, Junior 19, Senior 17. She'd be 26 now.

Heather - 40:59 10K as a 6-year-old, yes a 6-year-old. Footlocker: Freshman 23, never qualified again. Ran NAIA at Cal State San Marcos, transferred to Cal State Fullerton. Seems like best 5K times were in high 18?s in college.

James - set national record for 3000m with 9:40 at age 11. He'd be 27 now.

What I think is interesting is how many ?National Record Holders? from ages 7 to 13 are total unknowns today. Hmmm, BURNOUT perhaps?!

that picture of her made me sad!

:(

i hope this is something that she wants to do, but i can't imagine that it REALLY would be, when she looks back on it later in life. when you're in fifth grade, you should be climbing trees with your friends afterschool, not running six miles.

I am not advocating what this guy is doing, since I don't think a 6-11 year-old knows what is best for themselves. Just because a kid wants to run and train all the time doesn't mean it is ok for them to do it. If a kid wants to do anything at an unhealthy level then it takes (rational/impartial) adults to intervene.

Anyway, people do complain about US kids not getting enough exercise and talk about these Kenyan kids who run 6 miles each way to school everyday as a good thing. That is 50 miles per week. Granted these kids are not racing, but they are still putting in heavy miles for someone their age.

Nobody wrote:Anyway, people do complain about US kids not getting enough exercise and talk about these Kenyan kids who run 6 miles each way to school everyday as a good thing. That is 50 miles per week. Granted these kids are not racing, but they are still putting in heavy miles for someone their age.

And how much is too much. Have a H.S. freshman here in town. Great athlete, came up through the "system" of youth clubs in our state. One of the top young ladies in the country. Now she's running the 1600, 3200, 1600 relay, and 3200 relay at those ever so important invitationals. I sent a letter pointing out that she just might get burnt out or injured, or maybe even run a little faster if she was brought along with some patience. Let's just say I wasn't well received by the parents, coaches, adminstrators, officials, etc.

What a shame.

Nobody wrote:

Anyway, people do complain about US kids not getting enough exercise and talk about these Kenyan kids who run 6 miles each way to school everyday as a good thing. That is 50 miles per week. Granted these kids are not racing, but they are still putting in heavy miles for someone their age.

This is pretty much a myth. I think it was Paul Tergat that lived within 800m of his school so unless he ran back and forth 12 times...

The key point is they are not racing. I guess I fall back into the Lydiard camp on this one: run easy and have fun early but no competition.

I really am getting a kick out of this thread. I'm 37 years old and will be running my 30th Palos Verdes Marathon next month. Yes, every year since age 8. Last year I was third overall. The time was pure crap.

When I was eight, nine and ten, I ran the times Briana ran for five miles and ten miles. At age 11, I broke three hours for the first time in the marathon. There were other kids running close to my times, too.

My brother ran his first marathon at age 6. He then ran more races, including marathons until about age ten. Then he became more interested in soccer, surfing and baseball.

There were many CHILDREN, i.e. under ten, running marathons in Southern California in the mid 70's to early 80's. As far as I know, I'm the only one who still runs competitively, regularly. And I love it - from all comer's meets to 5K's to cross country. I still get on the track once a week and still put in the serious miles.

I like it just like many are lifelong tennis players or lifelong baseball fanatics.

Where did all the other kids go? Burn out? Major psychological problems? Different interests? Family problems? Drugs/drinking?

The answer is all of the above. I do not think generalities can be assigned or attributed to the effects of running at an early age. It is heavily dependent on the individual. I do not think running is that unique of a sport that has different or especially dangerous consequences. It would be interesting to keep records on the life of chess prodigies, piano prodigies, etc. to see how they fared in life.

Did all the running screw me up? My wife may say so, but jokingly (I hope). I have two kids, went to very good schools (J.D., M.B.A., B.S.), have a good job, mortgage, dogs. Pretty normal, I think. I'm not sponsored by Nike or adidas and never have been or even close to it. I have not qualified for the Olympic Trials.

Will it screw up Briana? Probably not.

Briana may become the next Pozdnyakova, running awesome times for decades (although perhaps exactly why is debatable)or the next Decker. She may also become the next Julia Stamps or Erin Forbes, or even Kathy Ornsby, or none of the above.

My parents did not push me, as other parents did to other kids. Perhaps that is why I still enjoy running. But other kids who were also not pushed stopped running competitively.

I ran all four years in high school, but nothing spectacular. I did not even break 10 for the two mile, or 4:30 for the mile. I competed for 12 seasons in college, improving my times with great coaching and frequent competition. I continued to improve after college, with more really good coaches. I did not burn out, despite tons of meets and racing just for points.

If one wants their children to be the next David Krummenacker, Meb or Geb or Mary Decker, running a ton of miles early on probably is not helpful. But the exposure to competition, discipline and goals may be helpful, although I think it is a mistake to say only running can provide this. That type of exposure is available in other sports and endeavors, but you may not be able to SHARE as a parent, your enthusiasm for the sport.

If you want your children to enjoy track and racing on the roads, as I do and have, getting the kids involved if they want to be involved is fine. They will be able to see your interest, which probably is good. Competition is healthy, the discipline is good, and there's no sport like running, with a watch that never lies, to keep one honest.

from that picture it looks like she is sponsored.......I find that funny. I will be interested to see how she develops in her running (will her times actually drop, or will she end up like her sister). The article I sent earlier describes how girls from the age of 13-14 lose bone density when they hit there growth spirts and if are training as intense as she is end you with mulitipule stress fractures and or carpel tunel syndrome. escuse my spelling.

Hey, my grandpa used to tell me "If there's grass on the field, play....." - Oh...wait a minute....what are we talking about?

I'm a graduate from the "youth system"- I started running when I was six years old, and I did the whole USATF, AAU, and Hershey Nationals thing. I had a very successful high school career and I'm a collegiate runner now. But my dad NEVER made me run 50 miles a week. That's totally insane. I think the most I ran was like ten miles a week, something pretty low. We used to have track workouts where we'd run 4x100m relays with my siblings and my dad- the total distance of the workout would be 400 meters. I remember back then the neighbors thought my dad was crazy- we'd run in the rain and everything! But 50 miles a week- I don't know how her little body holds up! This girl has a website of her own too- if it's still up, I think it's something like: www.seebriennarun.com A little overboard if you ask me!

told to, if you have any important say in this young woman's running future, stick to your convictions! Low-key, downplay and slow the rate of development and the number of competitive opportunities as much as you can.

To protect the innocent, there's a similiar situation here in MI regarding a girl who shows huge potential. Her dad didn't feel he got the right support from local, experienced and accomplished coaches so...he moved to another community. I think that stinks. I can not in my wildest dreams imagine my moving to another city to try to further my son's running career.

This is INSANE!! You are telling me a SIX YEAR OLD GIRL(Heather Garritson ) ONCE RAN A 41 MINUTE 10k???? THAT IS F'D UP! And her sister ran these times: Carrie - 35:21 10K as a 10-year-old, 2:49:19 marathon at age 11

?????

And this other chick( ) has run these times:

10-Mile - 1:02:06 - age 11, Falmouth Road Race 7.6-Mile - 42:41 (30th OA) - age 11 ??? at age ELEVEN??

Something is very wrong.

Greg, you wrote:

"There were many CHILDREN, i.e. under ten, running marathons in Southern California in the mid 70's to early 80's. As far as I know, I'm the only one who still runs competitively, regularly."

Dude, what does THAT tell you?? It speaks loud and clear. And did you read of all the other prodigies mentioned on this thread that were great as kids, but got worse and worse, and then stopped running??? DID YOU?? And with girls, the risks seem way worse (many more have bone density issues, and anorexia issues). And did see how incredibly talented those Garritsons were, only never to be heard of again??? There?s a trend here Greg. You might be an exception, but if you broke 3:00 at age 11, you sound like a wasted talent too.

And sure, maybe running hard when young is no worse than little kids forced to do Gymnastics as children. Maybe so, but there are tons of anorexic gymnasts too. And at least some of those little soldiers end up as Olympic champs and make some $ as pros. How many young prodigy runner girls or boys (save Mary Decker, and she was not setting records at AGE SIX, was she??) end up rich and famous after their early childhood(10 and under) running successes?? NONE. It?s pretty similar to child actors, they all end up F?d up!

That Garritsons should have been taken from their parents by Social Services.

Similarly, there is a young girl from just north of Toronto (Canada) who is seemingly following the same path as Briana. This girl (Stephanie Smith) also is 12 years old and ran the NS indoor 5000m behind Briana. Earlier in the year she ran 10.00 for 3000m - beating the Provincial High school and age-group Junior Cross-country champion in the process.

The problem, to me anyway, is the distances at which these girls are often competing. Like the NS meet, why the 5000m indoors! (Stephanie came back to run the 2 mile the next day - a race that Briana sensibly avoided!) As another poster noted, when Mary Decker was young (14 anyway) she showed some speed (2.03 for 800m I believe) upon which to build a future distance career. These girls (or their coach/parent) choose the longest races possible - how is that developmental? I know in little Stephanie's case that her 800m is not great (2.26?) compared with her distance performances (4.52 1500m, 10.00 3000m, 17.38 5k RR), so one has to wonder what might happen when other girls, less well trained (and raced)at the moment catch up to her in the future. There is another local girl (a year older) who is at a similar level over 800m, but whose fitness profile is determined (at present) by her age-group swimming (Like a younger Shalane Flanagan)not by her running training. I won't be surprised if she (given what her coach tells me)develops beyond the level (eventually) of Stephanie (or Briana for that matter) as her training and racing schedules increase over the years to match what these girls have already undertaken.