I’m a little surprised this didn’t make any noise on LR but if you weren’t at convention this week, you probably missed this. There were two proposals put forth to remove each of the two conversion types for D1 T&F marks. The executive committees unanimously and nearly unanimously voted in favor of these two proposals!
I find it funny that the executive committee can vote unanimously for something then it gets to the floor they get defeated 2:1.
I find it funny that the executive committee can vote unanimously for something then it gets to the floor they get defeated 2:1.
Served on the D3 track committee at my last job. Half the time the coaches voting don’t listen to ANYTHING they’re told in their breakouts. The coaches on the executive committee go over every potential question AD NASEUM in their meetings and go into the breakouts fully prepared to defend the proposal and they’re ignored which will lead coaches to vote down anything and everything thrown their way.
What’s starting to suck about the convention are the coaches that don’t take anything serious anymore. From talking to a few D1 coaches, they knew a ton of other coaches who voted against themselves. Getting rid of indexing could have potentially helped them, but nope, they didn’t see how it could possibly help them so they voted it down. Frustrating when people talk about “making the sport better” but can’t be bothered to go to the general sessions to actually understand what others have thought up to potentially make the sport better.
I’m not in D1, so I didn’t see the presentation or hear the rationale, but still makes no sense how it didn’t make it through when there’s an obvious majority that would be helped by getting rid of indexing.
I find it funny that the executive committee can vote unanimously for something then it gets to the floor they get defeated 2:1.
Served on the D3 track committee at my last job. Half the time the coaches voting don’t listen to ANYTHING they’re told in their breakouts. The coaches on the executive committee go over every potential question AD NASEUM in their meetings and go into the breakouts fully prepared to defend the proposal and they’re ignored which will lead coaches to vote down anything and everything thrown their way.
What’s starting to suck about the convention are the coaches that don’t take anything serious anymore. From talking to a few D1 coaches, they knew a ton of other coaches who voted against themselves. Getting rid of indexing could have potentially helped them, but nope, they didn’t see how it could possibly help them so they voted it down. Frustrating when people talk about “making the sport better” but can’t be bothered to go to the general sessions to actually understand what others have thought up to potentially make the sport better.
I’m not in D1, so I didn’t see the presentation or hear the rationale, but still makes no sense how it didn’t make it through when there’s an obvious majority that would be helped by getting rid of indexing.
You have it backwards, the executive committees should be listening to the coaching body, not the coaching body taking orders from the executive committee.
Removing indexing hurts the VAST majority. Coaches aren't stupid. The big schools with banked tracks would limit entry to their meets to favor themselves. It punishes teams that don't have banked tracks near their campus.
This shows how OUT OF TOUCH the executive committee is. It's a bunch elitist power 5 coaches surrounded by yes-men looking to land big jobs by kissing their @$$.
Maybe I'm off here, but my take is that the executive committee receives a list of proposals, and then votes on whether they should reach the coaching body for potential vote. They're not necessarily voting on whether it should pass or not.
I see both sides of the issue as it's unfair to make elevation teams to travel for all qualifying times, but then again, some of the conversions are NOT correct. The NCAA's 1500 conversion is definitely a few seconds off the mark. Frustrating to see guys run these converted times at elevation, and then have no chance at hitting the same or faster when they're in good fields at sea level.
Conversions are way to generious and if kept should be adjusted, also why isnt there a temperature conversion?
Southern teams need to travel to colder climates to hit times.
The one thing about running at elevation, is sure the elevation makes things slower, but more often than not in the USA the temperature and humidity are very favorable at higher elevations negating the impacts of the altitude.
Maybe I'm off here, but my take is that the executive committee receives a list of proposals, and then votes on whether they should reach the coaching body for potential vote. They're not necessarily voting on whether it should pass or not.
I see both sides of the issue as it's unfair to make elevation teams to travel for all qualifying times, but then again, some of the conversions are NOT correct. The NCAA's 1500 conversion is definitely a few seconds off the mark. Frustrating to see guys run these converted times at elevation, and then have no chance at hitting the same or faster when they're in good fields at sea level.
Beamish qualified for the 2019 indoor championships with a 4:06 at altitude that converted to a 3:57. How'd that work out for him?
That's right, HE WON. By a lot. Against a 3:54 guy and a 3:56 guy.
Geordie Beamish of NAU leads the pack of runners in the men's mile run during the Division I Men’s and Women’s Indoor Track & Field Championship held at the ...
Unfortunately there is not really a good way to fix the conversion problem because altitude affects people so differently. The conversions are definitely generous if you are from altitude but it would be very tough for sea level kids to think “I’ll just travel to elevation and the conversion will help me”. On the other hand track size/shape or feel like effects most people similarly.
Conversions are way to generious and if kept should be adjusted, also why isnt there a temperature conversion?
Southern teams need to travel to colder climates to hit times.
The one thing about running at elevation, is sure the elevation makes things slower, but more often than not in the USA the temperature and humidity are very favorable at higher elevations negating the impacts of the altitude.
what????
I'm mean I think the conversion thing is completely subjective but seriously.?.. day to day temperature and humidity change at a specific location, that's not what happens at altitude.
Maybe I'm off here, but my take is that the executive committee receives a list of proposals, and then votes on whether they should reach the coaching body for potential vote. They're not necessarily voting on whether it should pass or not.
I see both sides of the issue as it's unfair to make elevation teams to travel for all qualifying times, but then again, some of the conversions are NOT correct. The NCAA's 1500 conversion is definitely a few seconds off the mark. Frustrating to see guys run these converted times at elevation, and then have no chance at hitting the same or faster when they're in good fields at sea level.
This IS exactly correct. There was a 23-0 vote by the executive committee to bring the proposal to the membership. It WASN'T a 23-0 vote to support the proposal. The executive committee felt there was enough merit to let the membership decide.
Personally, I am a fan of eliminating the 200 flat track conversion for national qualifying purposes. How many national qualifiers even came from a flat 200? Or, if you want indexing, base indexing on the radius of the turns. The JDL track with wide turns would not be the same conversion as the Jadwin Gym track at Princeton.
Maybe I'm off here, but my take is that the executive committee receives a list of proposals, and then votes on whether they should reach the coaching body for potential vote. They're not necessarily voting on whether it should pass or not.
I see both sides of the issue as it's unfair to make elevation teams to travel for all qualifying times, but then again, some of the conversions are NOT correct. The NCAA's 1500 conversion is definitely a few seconds off the mark. Frustrating to see guys run these converted times at elevation, and then have no chance at hitting the same or faster when they're in good fields at sea level.
This IS exactly correct. There was a 23-0 vote by the executive committee to bring the proposal to the membership. It WASN'T a 23-0 vote to support the proposal. The executive committee felt there was enough merit to let the membership decide.
Personally, I am a fan of eliminating the 200 flat track conversion for national qualifying purposes. How many national qualifiers even came from a flat 200? Or, if you want indexing, base indexing on the radius of the turns. The JDL track with wide turns would not be the same conversion as the Jadwin Gym track at Princeton.
maybe that's how it's intended to be, but it's clear the executive committee feel like they are calling the shots. Dave Smith even called out Sullivan for trying to force things upon us from the top down (regarding the cross country date change). It was a clear directive that the executive committee was trying to convince everyone this indexing removal was good for the sport.
Michigan also got CALLED OUT for denying entry to teams into their home meets.
Sorry meant to say that when your running conditions are typically 15C and 30% humidity at 1500m for a typical "mountain" meet compared to 35C and 80% humidity at 50m for a typical "southeast" meet its hard to justify contiually lowering the times from the "mountain" meet. Not that elevation doesnt have an impact its just minimal relative to heat and humidity.
Now sure you can say some days its a hot 17C 35% in the mountains and a cool 32C 70% in the southeast but the southeast runner NEVER gets a performance correction despite the weather ALWAYS being a bigger impact than the elevation is for the mountain runner.
Then the corrections are so large everyone wants to race high just to get the correction its stupid.
I find it funny that the executive committee can vote unanimously for something then it gets to the floor they get defeated 2:1.
Served on the D3 track committee at my last job. Half the time the coaches voting don’t listen to ANYTHING they’re told in their breakouts. The coaches on the executive committee go over every potential question AD NASEUM in their meetings and go into the breakouts fully prepared to defend the proposal and they’re ignored which will lead coaches to vote down anything and everything thrown their way.
What’s starting to suck about the convention are the coaches that don’t take anything serious anymore. From talking to a few D1 coaches, they knew a ton of other coaches who voted against themselves. Getting rid of indexing could have potentially helped them, but nope, they didn’t see how it could possibly help them so they voted it down. Frustrating when people talk about “making the sport better” but can’t be bothered to go to the general sessions to actually understand what others have thought up to potentially make the sport better.
I’m not in D1, so I didn’t see the presentation or hear the rationale, but still makes no sense how it didn’t make it through when there’s an obvious majority that would be helped by getting rid of indexing.
You weren't in the meetings. Coaches took it seriously.
Maybe I'm off here, but my take is that the executive committee receives a list of proposals, and then votes on whether they should reach the coaching body for potential vote. They're not necessarily voting on whether it should pass or not.
I see both sides of the issue as it's unfair to make elevation teams to travel for all qualifying times, but then again, some of the conversions are NOT correct. The NCAA's 1500 conversion is definitely a few seconds off the mark. Frustrating to see guys run these converted times at elevation, and then have no chance at hitting the same or faster when they're in good fields at sea level.
Do you mean when Beamish ran 4:06 then won nationals over several sub 4 milers?
I’m a little surprised this didn’t make any noise on LR but if you weren’t at convention this week, you probably missed this. There were two proposals put forth to remove each of the two conversion types for D1 T&F marks. The executive committees unanimously and nearly unanimously voted in favor of these two proposals!
I find it funny that the executive committee can vote unanimously for something then it gets to the floor they get defeated 2:1.
These altitude conversions are important. There are some very stupid sprint coaches who don't believe there's an advantage to running at altitude and refuse to listen to science. It's just ridiculous. They're the ones voting for no conversions because they honestly think there isn't a difference.
I’m a little surprised this didn’t make any noise on LR but if you weren’t at convention this week, you probably missed this. There were two proposals put forth to remove each of the two conversion types for D1 T&F marks. The executive committees unanimously and nearly unanimously voted in favor of these two proposals!
I find it funny that the executive committee can vote unanimously for something then it gets to the floor they get defeated 2:1.
These altitude conversions are important. There are some very stupid sprint coaches who don't believe there's an advantage to running at altitude and refuse to listen to science. It's just ridiculous. They're the ones voting for no conversions because they honestly think there isn't a difference.
The sprint coaches want to travel to altitude to get all their athletes to qualify in thinner air. Currently sprint times are converted slower at altitude.
Served on the D3 track committee at my last job. Half the time the coaches voting don’t listen to ANYTHING they’re told in their breakouts. The coaches on the executive committee go over every potential question AD NASEUM in their meetings and go into the breakouts fully prepared to defend the proposal and they’re ignored which will lead coaches to vote down anything and everything thrown their way.
What’s starting to suck about the convention are the coaches that don’t take anything serious anymore. From talking to a few D1 coaches, they knew a ton of other coaches who voted against themselves. Getting rid of indexing could have potentially helped them, but nope, they didn’t see how it could possibly help them so they voted it down. Frustrating when people talk about “making the sport better” but can’t be bothered to go to the general sessions to actually understand what others have thought up to potentially make the sport better.
I’m not in D1, so I didn’t see the presentation or hear the rationale, but still makes no sense how it didn’t make it through when there’s an obvious majority that would be helped by getting rid of indexing.
You weren't in the meetings. Coaches took it seriously.
That's not surprising and it's believable that D3 coaches don't take it seriously but D1 coaches do. There's huge difference in the quality of coaching from D3 to D1.