I just came across an article on how the non-binary category at the NYC Marathon this year will have roughly 60 people in it this year - "This year it counts more than 60. "
Despite so few entrants, there is $15,000 on the line in the non-binary category so bascially $250 per non-binary entrant.
Let's contrast that to the men/women's category.
There is $650,000 total to be taken home (counting both open and US prize money) to be taken home from roughly 50,000 runners or $13 per entrant.
If NYC paid out $250 per male/female entrant like they do for non-binary, it would have a prize purse of $12.5 million, not $650,000.
PS. I'm requiring registration to reply. Please be respectful in your replies. If someone wants to identify as non-binary, go ahead.
As someone wrote in another thread, the following both can be true: 1. We should be kind to people regardless of sex, gender, race, etc.. AND 2. The non-binary category in sporting events is silly.
First you complain for years about how trans athletes running in the women's division is going to be the end of women's sports.
So........ after they do exactly what you are asking for.....and create a separate division for non-binary athletes.....solving the entire problem you've railed about for years.......how do you respond?
By flipping out and getting triggered over the fact they are getting 'too much' prize money.
good Lord.....could you make it any more clear that you are just on an anti-trans crusade?
If you endless campaign over the years really was about saving women's sports and NOT an anti-trans crusade......you would be viewing this as a great victory.
Not only do you not even see it as a step forward....you actually very clear upset by it. So it's very clear what your real issue is.
Not only do you not even see it as a step forward....you actually very clear upset by it. So it's very clear what your real issue is.
Well said. Rojo's transphobia has become quite obvious. Society will leave bigotry like this behind and in several years comments like his above will be viewed with the same contempt that we now view casual homophobia from the 90s / early 2000s.
This is not discrimination. This post in general and your ridiculous calculation of available prize money per entrant don’t reflect well on you, this site, or the sports journalism you all aspire to.
His white, cisgender, male privilege is really coming to light. He cannot foresee a future where marginalized groups of people are no longer marginalized without taking something away from the dominate groups. Not everything has to be a zero-sum game. He needs to stop ranting and raving against non-binary and wheel chair athletes for receiving prize money, and focus his energy on the Race Directors by encouraging them to add to the prize pot. Or, better yet, find a company that wants to sponsor the non-binary race.
I am a middle school teacher and I personally don't understand many gender issues, but what I do understand is that Transgender teens are more than 7 times more likely to commit suicide. If I can make one person feel safe and welcome by doing the bare minimum and treat them with kindness and decency then it is worth it.
His white, cisgender, male privilege is really coming to light. He cannot foresee a future where marginalized groups of people are no longer marginalized without taking something away from the dominate groups. Not everything has to be a zero-sum game. He needs to stop ranting and raving against non-binary and wheel chair athletes for receiving prize money, and focus his energy on the Race Directors by encouraging them to add to the prize pot. Or, better yet, find a company that wants to sponsor the non-binary race.
I am a middle school teacher and I personally don't understand many gender issues, but what I do understand is that Transgender teens are more than 7 times more likely to commit suicide. If I can make one person feel safe and welcome by doing the bare minimum and treat them with kindness and decency then it is worth it.
Your argument is nonsensical. We aren't talking about transgender teens here. We're talking about a professional non-binary division in the New York City Marathon.
My argument on both the non-binary and trans isssue is simple and consistent. Gender should have NOTHING to do with sports. Biological sex is what matters. A VERY prominent icond in women's athletics recently proposed the perfect solution to me recently. We have two categories in sports "Open" and a "protected xx category" that's it.
That way no one can complain.
A race shouldn't pry into your personal life. Don't ask me if i'm a man, woman, non-binary, gender non-conforming, gender fluid, gay, straight, religious non-religiousetc. Identify how you want, dress how you want, believe what you want or don't, but please for the sake of god do not let biological males take away from women's prize money or prestige.
URonaBROsadew wrote First you complain for years about how trans athletes running in the women's division is going to be the end of women's sports. So........ after they do exactly what you are asking for.....and create a separate division for non-binary athletes.....solving the entire problem you've railed about for years.......how do you respond?
1) You are the bigot here. Do you not understand that a non-binary athlete is not the same thing as a trans athlete?
2) This doesn't solve the problem I've been railing abot for your years. It's the same problem - biological males will be taking things from biological females just like they have since the beginning of time. For non major NYRR races, the non-binary prize money is the same a male/female so biological males will end up winning 2/3rds of the prize money.
And in actuality the whole non-binary category makes no sense. A trans woman can't win prize money in new york, but a non-binary person can?
Now add in all the appearance fees, hotels, transportation, etc. that the cis gender athletes. Then multiply it by the number of years NYC has not had any money for nonbinary athletes.
I'm really curious to see what the finishing times will be. No one said non binary athletes (born male or born female) were fast. If it's over three hours, and they get prize money for that I will never stop laughing.
Rojo, I think I think the issue is that you're immediately making an argument that pits on group of people against the other, as though non-binary are "taking" something from the other groups. This is not the case.
If the New York Road Runners want to promote a non-binary category and create a prize pool that attracts competitors in that category, go for it. I'm more interested in why the prize pools for all categories continues to go down while registration fee's and numbers go up...
And the open/protected argument doesn't get you anywhere... who defines "protected"? I'm all about protecting women's athletics and removing as much ambiguity as possible with trying to adhere to a system that has baselines for how it defines it's categories. Biology will most likely continue to be a part of that, but it probably needs to evolve past whats on your birth certificate.
As with any system, effective changes can't happen over night, and there is no change with out loss, someone or some group will be impacted more than another. I think the non-binary category is a good way to at least minimize the impact until we can create a better system.
At the end of the day, as a long time fan of running, I would like to see any and all opportunities for people to go out and compete in a category thats as fair as possible. Until we get there, can't we at least acknowledge that this is a step in the right direction...
If your argument is still based upon some awkward statistic that's going to be as bias as registrant dollars per category, then I think it should be reframed as to why the prize pools for the other categories are so low instead of why the non-binary is so high.
I just came across an article on how the non-binary category at the NYC Marathon this year will have roughly 60 people in it this year - "This year it counts more than 60. "
Despite so few entrants, there is $15,000 on the line in the non-binary category so bascially $250 per non-binary entrant.
Let's contrast that to the men/women's category.
There is $650,000 total to be taken home (counting both open and US prize money) to be taken home from roughly 50,000 runners or $13 per entrant.
If NYC paid out $250 per male/female entrant like they do for non-binary, it would have a prize purse of $12.5 million, not $650,000.
PS. I'm requiring registration to reply. Please be respectful in your replies. If someone wants to identify as non-binary, go ahead.
As someone wrote in another thread, the following both can be true: 1. We should be kind to people regardless of sex, gender, race, etc.. AND 2. The non-binary category in sporting events is silly.
You probably are just going for clicks with this thread, but it seems worthwhile to point out that you assessment that this is discrimination is absurd.
Rojo - In general I hugely appreciate the work of you and your team... but your obsession with this specific topic, and the clickbait headlines, are becoming tedious.
At this point people in your core audience either agree or disagree, but probably for both groups the continued outrage in every article and podcast is boring.
Because what - "Democrats" are the educated voices of reason and emotional intellect in America?
F--king spare me - and this comes from someone who has absolutely no ideological indoctrination, oops I mean political allegiance, in this country.
As for the post? This boils down to one thing - creating a perfectly even playing field in competitive sports is absolutely impossible. But as a society we have managed to do quite well not over complicating it with just two categories in terms of able bodied humans - humans with male sex and reproductive organs and humans with female sex and reproductive organs. This can of worms being opened is absolutely farcical and is going to (if it isn't already) going to cause more problems for society and equality than it is allegedly going to solve.
The vitriol towards Rojo on this topic (which btw I have never read anything bigoted or disrespectful from him, ever) for his opinion on this is absurd. Some of you people are absolute losers.
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