Squatting => running slower?

You are lifting too hard with too much volume.

With a typical 5 x 5 you are going to failure on 5 sets. Instead, warm-up, ramp-up to ONE set to failure. Front Squats one day. Trap Bar Deadlift another day. Ideally on your harder running day AFTER your run or preferably hours after. Incorporate an explosive movement or plyos later in the buildup. Upper Body work doesnt have to be anymore more than some dips or pullups.

Alan

Lifting or running. It’s impossible to seriously train both (this is where the powerlifters with 5:40 mile times or the runners who do body weight squats and pull-ups object)

> Did you do deep knee bends x 50 for 3 weeks before you began squats?

> Did you squat 3 sets before you decided to squat 5 sets?

> Squat either before or after hard runs. Do not squat on easy days. If you squat on easy days you will be sore on days of your hard runs.

> I believe weight training for 100m to 800m athletes is a necessity. Most college XC teams do total body weight training. That said, I don't believe deadlifts are worth the risk of injury for most T&F athletes. If you want to strengthen your back, bent knee back row.

stronglifts 5x5 isn't to failure though... on the StrongLifts site they say, "No Failure. Training to failure gets you pumped and sore. Soreness prevents you to train the muscles again the same week. Yet training more frequently triggers more strength and muscle gains. You therefore don’t try to hit failure on StrongLifts 5×5. You try to add weight."

What about Seb Coe? Mo Farah? They lift(ed), don't they? Didn't Seb Coe squat 1.5x his BW?

perfect post. especially the timing.

I came from an olympic lifting background so was used to squatting heavy or for decent volume 6x a week. This meant the typical soreness associated with squat sessions wasn't there for me when I got back into running. The best way to avoid soreness is from what I've seen is to gradually increase frequency. One trick to help do so might be incorporating squats into your warmup in the gym (i.e. build from body weight squats to pistol squats to hitting ~66% of 1RM for a set of 5 before every workout).

I also disagree with the other poster re: effort. Most 5x5 use ~75% of 1RM, meaning you should be able to do at least 8 but probably closer to 10 reps for a single set. As for keeping at it, it depends on your goals. If it really is just injury prevention, then 5x5 is not the right tool. 5x5 is a great program for beginners looking to gain strength or build a base for hypertrophy, but it is a taxing stimulus on its own. A compromise might be to incorporate more plyometrics and body weight exercises, and bring down the total volume of lower body lifts

You obviously won't run at your best the day after strength training so timing is important. I like to do it in the evening after an intense session so I maximise the number of "easy" days. The soreness will also be higher if you're not used to it and decreas dramatically after a few weeks of 1-3 session/week. However a slowdown of 1min/mi seems very extreme - you might be going too hard. I can usually make decent gains going to about 2-3 reps before failure on squats and DL and more like 1 rep for upper-body. Also after 4-8 weeks of building strength I cut down to a weekly 3x5 which is enough volume for me to maintain strength.

You are sore. You are doing too much volume.

There is a balance to learn. If your goal is running then you have to figure out the type of lifting that results in increased strength without unnecessary soreness.

Let's say your 5 rep max for a front squat is 135lb. Try this:

set 1: bar x 10, 60s rest

set 2: 95 x 5, 120s rest

set 3: 115 x 5, 2-3min rest

set 4: 135 x 5

The following week aim for 6 reps on the last set. Once you can do 6 reps, add 5lbs on the next workout and try for 4 reps. Next workout go for 5, then 6, etc. So the progression is auto-regulating. You stay in that 4-6 rep range. As you get stronger changes become harder to make and may take weeks, or you work on the quality of the rep, or you move to a 3-5 rep range.

Alan

Could my soreness just be due to not having done these lifts in years? Shouldn't there be an unavoidable period where you body has to adapt to these new exercises, where you’ll inevitably be sore before your body gets used to it?

They were great runners DESPITE the weight lifting.

Coe made his breakthroughs after starting weight training at Loughborough.

that’s the dumbest sh1t I’ve ever heard.

most d1 running and swimming programs incorporate some sort of weightlifting days for their athletes. If weightlifting were counterproductive, I doubt it’d be so ubiquitous at the high/elite levels

Oh. Maybe I misread your post. So this was your first time lifting in years?

Then yes you will be sore. DOMS happens when your body hasn't done something in a while. Try 10 x 30s sprints and see how you feel the next day. Same thing. DOMS goes away as you repeat the same stress.

Alan

Lower your volume, and every 3 weeks, don't do lower body lifts. Swap in some body weight reverse lunges and treat it as a PT day

You will be slower the day after you run a workout too, doesn’t mean it is t making you faster in the long run

but I tend to think you are doing too much volume

It takes a month or two to get used to it. Meanwhile your paces will slow at the same effort and slowly bounce back over time.

That being said, you need to get direction on how to make lifting work for you. Few get it right. For example static lifts should be done on "high nueral" days (high acidic work) which don't occur often for distance runners.

Too many squats will mess with proprioception and can really mess with coordination. It's better on those days to learn more of the Olympic lifts for better muscular coordination.

Short hills are good also BTW.

The 5x5 like programs are designed to be time-efficient for strength and muscle mass development for beginners, but recovery is very important. You might be able to run the same day as lifting in the beginning but will very soon start squatting or deadlifting really heavy weights, and you just won’t be able to run and lift effectively the same day, especially if the lifts involve either one of squats or deadlifts like the strength programs usually do, so don’t push it by trying to lift and run the same day no matter what times of the day you schedule it.

You shouldn’t feel sore for “days” after you lift except maybe in the first couple weeks. Some mild soreness is normal, like doing 5x5RM squats again tomorrow after you just did them today would and should suck, but you should be able to do it again two days later. If not, get your lifting form checked by a coach or someone experienced.

I find it harder to run the day immediately after heavy squats, so I avoid scheduling it that way, but squatting the day after my long run seems fine. You’d have to figure out what works smoothly for you.

It’s not ubiquitous at high/elite levels except in America. Which has more to do with our cultural baggage than performance. If you think that’s a stretch, observe Ryan Hall’s obvious body image issues despite his outstanding performance.