Doping runs throughout the sport - and notably amongst Kenyans, who are second only to Russia for serving doping violations. You don't find that "despicable"?
It means the US is really weak. The woman are worse were the AR can't even pace out to the half way point. in the US if your fast enough to run a 60, you are in line to make the 5k/10k team. Our 27 min guys don't go run the marathon in general.
"Weak" or less doped?
I think it is unlikely our 5/10k runners are doping more than they road racers do.
There's nothing exceptional about a resurgence in the marathon after a declining track career. What is truly rare is to maintain such dominance in the marathon for nearly a decade. However, I do know of many who have maintained or improved from their non-elite level in the marathon after running a lot of them over a decade or more. Kipchoge has a routine and he never pushes it. He runs 15x1k at 2:45 at altitude, along with set fast long runs, and he never loses his focus and simple lifestyle, unlike, say, Bekele or Geb (who was very consistent but had a lot of business interests, and Bekele followed him in that respect). So, given whatever got him to that 2:03 level in the first place, drugs, natural talent, hard work, you can see why he would be able to maintain that level and even improve when super shoes came in. I admire the guy immensely. I hope that he is clean and I hope that he was clean even when he was on the track in 2003, but particularly during his marathon career.
Kipchoge gets faster and faster as he nears forty but I see that with a career as long as his no one tries the "fresh legs" argument. However there's still the "shoes", even though no one else seems to benefit from these as much as the 38 year-old. And of course, no one else trains hard. I look forward to even greater achievements at 50.
Kipchoge's 5000m progression. Runs 13:13 as a 17 year old, 12:52 at 18, and his pb 12:46 at 19. This is very similar to Nijel Amos, except at least Amos had the excuse of being pulled around by Rudisha in that 2012 final. Progression is halted as soon as EPO testing is introduced. Moves to the roads the same year as the first ABP sanction was made.
Lol! "Look everyone, I connected the dots!" he says with a straight face.
That's like saying "autism rates went "up" [ diagnosis actually did] when rates of vaccination went up. Ergo...connection!"
[ I actually blame it on the increase in air conditioning in homes. Or MTV. Or the explosion of starbucks. 🙄 ]
So you see the sudden fall-off in performance by a single athlete when doping rules are toughened as the same as "autism increases when it rains", or whatever. Since neither injury nor age were apparently causal factors for this decline, I wonder what else it might be? Apparently you have never grasped the link between doping and performance.
And of course what I mean is any other time in history when only about a handful of Americans could run half of the world record in the marathon.
I can’t tell if you’re just trolling for laughs here, but there have been plenty of times when only a few Americans could reach halfway of the marathon WR. The World Athletics stats only go back to 2001, but that year the top American half-marathoner was Scott Larson at 1:03:08. The world record at the time was Khannouchi’s 2:05:42.
Now, if you ask “Was Khannouchi doping?”, that’s certainly an interesting question (to put it mildly). But my answer would be the same regardless of whether the top American was running 60 flat or 66 minutes.
Are you joking? I said Americans who could run a half marathon at the world record pace. I would guess in 2001 that at least 10 could run 1:02:51. For sure Meb, Abdi, Culpepper, Kennedy, Goucher just off the top of my head.
"Only the dumb and the careless get caught" - Richard Pound, WADA. Kipchoge's as clean as Bolt. If you want to believe that.
I searched the veracity of this quote and it was in a 2005 presentation on doping and was attributed to a guy not named Dick Pound. So like many of your arguments it’s thin at best. With how sophisticated anti-doping is nowadays in fact I’d suggest everyone dumb and careless is caught eventually. You guys even yourselves tacitly admit it by assuming all whereabouts bans are for dopers who know they would be caught red-handed. If it was so easy to beat the tests, there’d be no reason to ever miss a test.
Kipchoge's 5000m progression. Runs 13:13 as a 17 year old, 12:52 at 18, and his pb 12:46 at 19. This is very similar to Nijel Amos, except at least Amos had the excuse of being pulled around by Rudisha in that 2012 final. Progression is halted as soon as EPO testing is introduced. Moves to the roads the same year as the first ABP sanction was made.
That Bob Beamon fellow must have been a chemistry genius. Who knew?
BTW, that journal article is about EPO and neuronal aging. It has nothing to do with athletic performance. Did you even read it? And did you know that EPO testing has been around for 22 years?
Kipchoge's 5000m progression. Runs 13:13 as a 17 year old, 12:52 at 18, and his pb 12:46 at 19. This is very similar to Nijel Amos, except at least Amos had the excuse of being pulled around by Rudisha in that 2012 final. Progression is halted as soon as EPO testing is introduced. Moves to the roads the same year as the first ABP sanction was made.
That Bob Beamon fellow must have been a chemistry genius. Who knew?
BTW, that journal article is about EPO and neuronal aging. It has nothing to do with athletic performance. Did you even read it? And did you know that EPO testing has been around for 22 years?
The article was linked because this is a thread asking how Kipchoge can be obliterating his own world records at age 37 and 11 months when he peaked athletically 10 years ago (actually 18 years ago when he was still a teenager). There have been at least several different studies that have shown that EPO has anti-aging effects (in addition to its running performance benefits). Clear?
That Bob Beamon fellow must have been a chemistry genius. Who knew?
BTW, that journal article is about EPO and neuronal aging. It has nothing to do with athletic performance. Did you even read it? And did you know that EPO testing has been around for 22 years?
The article was linked because this is a thread asking how Kipchoge can be obliterating his own world records at age 37 and 11 months when he peaked athletically 10 years ago (actually 18 years ago when he was still a teenager). There have been at least several different studies that have shown that EPO has anti-aging effects (in addition to its running performance benefits). Clear?
So cite those studies, especially the ones that demonstrate that the anti-aging effects of EPO are in any way related to physical performance. Clear?
Besides, you were blatantly wrong in claiming that EPO testing was first introduced in 2004-2005. It was introduced at the Sydney Olympics in 2000.
And what ABOUT Bob Beamon? By your logic, he couldn't possibly have jumped nearly 2 feet further than the previous WR unless he was doped. So was he? How about David Moorcroft?
How far could others go with the backing of a large company?
Doesn't the sheer number of distance runners who also have top shelf corporate contracts/sponsors answer your own question? There's no need to speculate: we can literally see and compare the results of Kipchoge directly to his well-heeled foes Farah, Bekele, Osako, Rupp, Kamworor, etc.
I don't quite understand the importance of the ABP thing considering he gets tested OOC and is subject to the exact same rules on the roads as on the track.
The biggest mystery is why Kipchoge wasn't good at the 10,000, really. He was still good at the 3K/5K as evidenced by an 8:07 2 mile FTW indoors, a 7:31 3K (runner-up), and a 12:55 5,000 (even well back). You could maybe ask the same for Hellen Obiri up until this year, but then she was a whisker away from winning Gold at Worlds in the 10,000.
Kipchoge was definitely a natural on the roads. Running 59:25 (in old shoes) in his debut at the tail end of a track season would be akin to Barega/Cheptegei running 58:30 in their first try (or equivalent performance competitively). Barega did his best this past season but got beaten handily by Kiplimo. So you wouldn't tap him to be a natural at it like you might with Kipchoge considering he built on it in 2013 with strong HMs/full. Kiplimo seems to be the nearest prospect we've had in road running.
There is no money in the 10000. The list of guys with fast 5ks and slow 10ks is pretty long...
There is a long history of guys running fast marathons around 35-38. They all drop off by 40. Granted kipchoge dropping off is going to be running a 2:05....
Marathon is sort of unique in that it isn't all about aerobic power like the 5000-hm. Ability to not run out of fuel or have the legs not break down matter a lot. If you have 27min 10k speed and your are a natural marathoner, you are running down around 2:03. See all the Japanese guys who are 28min guys and running 2:08s... Just not a lot of guys who are both fast and marathoners...
From what I've read, the marathon is most definitely about aerobic capacity and running economy. The 5k in particular has a strong VO2 max component and that is what drops away quite precipitously when you reach your thirties. Aerobic capacity can continue to improve into your late-30s and maybe beyond. It's why you see so many amateur guys in their 50s/60s who can run 3:10 for the marathon but only 21/22 minutes for 5k.