The weirdness of 400/800 dudes in Cross Country

If I had to say, you might need to do long endurance work like tempos or tempo reps

For a mid distance guy maybe 2x1.5 mile with 90 sec rest. Learn how to run steady for a longer period of time, .15 isn't a lot

That’s not unsurprising.

Im an 800m guy and I can crank 4:49 pace for 8x3:00 with 2:00 jogging rest. Definitely can’t hit that in an 8k or 5k right now.

A good way to force your training to be more aerobic is to increase rep length. Get some 5-10 minute intervals of quality to bridge the gap and I’m sure your XC fitness will get better.

400/800m guys are naturally very anaerobically strong, if that’s really where your talent lies, just understand you aren’t going to exactly be a 5k guy which is fine. You wouldn’t expect a fast 100m guy to run a fast 800m after cranking some fast 200m repeats.

What CopperRunner said pretty much sums it up. It's also important to factor in track/road vs grass if you're not running the workout on an xc course. Temperature can also play a big factor.

Why does it matter if you are using xcountry to prepare for track racing in the summer?

A. in the fifth man on my Cross team so my points count. I’d like to help the team

B. it is counter intuitive to everything I know about running that I can run 3 miles faster in intervals/jogging than running evenly (on the same course)

Maybe you should race fartlek style?

On a more serious note, you might want to check your splits. You may be starting too fast, causing you to falter as the race goes on.

This racing style is actually quite common for mid-distance runners. During XC races, the 400/800m runners liked to speed up and slow down interchangeably while most of us distance runners preferred a more consistent pace with a kick at the end.

You should’ve played soccer or lacrosse instead.

You're almost certainly starting the race too fast. Somewhere in the early part of the race, you are running faster than the 6 min pace you could maintain. For instance if you go out the first 800 at 530, but can only maintain 6, you are going to end up running slower than 6 min pace, prob because you also ran the first 400 at 5-515.

This is almost certainly a pacing issue.

My question to you is this, and I am being completely serious. Why are you even running cross country if you are a 400/800 meter runner. The 800 is really turning into a long sprint. Pat Henry at Texas A&M consistently churns out very good 800m runners and his 800 people train with the 400 group. Of course their training isn't identical but cross country may increase your endurance but your turnover is really going to suffer.

Fair question. I don't have a fall sport and there isn't any preseason training for track guys. So its a good way to stay in shape. I also like the x-country coach and my teammates. Finally, I think I have more potential as an 800 guy and this is a way to stretch my 400 speed.

basically, you have more explosive energy than distance runners do because of your 800m speed. your legs are more efficient at higher speeds while your teammates are more efficient at lower speeds. this may be why you are quicker on fartleks than in a race.

* O.P. did not state he or she is a high schooler but since O.P. stated he or she does not participate in another fall sport, it is fair to assume O.P. is a high school student.

* As long as O.P. is not trying to qualify for Summer 1000 Mile Club, high school XC is harmless for low mileage 400m/800m gals & guys. As high school XC captain, I would review American football depth chart. I recruited a 3rd string receiver to switch from American football to XC in high school. I recommended he only run: Tuesday, 5 miles, Thursday, 5 miles, Saturday, 4 miles and Sunday 7 1/2 miles over the summer. It worked out.

* Since O.P. is most likely a high school male, why did you use Pat Henry, Texas A&M example? Big time N.C.A.A. D-1 XC programs often expect male XC runners to log (900 to 1100) miles over the summer. No one is making high school XC runners log that many miles. Even if there are captains unofficially pressuring some high school teammates to log over 1000 miles, it is up to high school XC coach to tell 400m & 800m athletes not to participate in a summer high mileage program.

* Emmanuel Korir at least participated in a modified college XC training program. I had a several college XC teammates in F.A.T. (46.xx to 48.xx) 400m range. My college XC coach adjusted training for his athletes as needed.

Fall XC is just part of the 12 month training process. Do not worry about your lack of XC racing success.

Please tell me that you are female. Scoring at 6:15 pace should not happen for boys.

Yep what OP is describing is impossible. The only way it’s not is if the race is not evenly paced.

That or training and racing are under very different conditions such as track vs trails, flat vs hills, etc

600yd/600m man is absolutely correct. The idea that running high school cross country will hurt your leg turnover (or anything else) for the 400/800 is ridiculous.

Further, if you're looking to move up to the 800, while still running the 400, you're doing exactly the right thing by running cross country. Good for you for having the guts to step up and do it, instead of thinking three miles is a marathon and I can't do that. Don't worry about how you're racing now. Stay focused on the long term objective.

Regarding your cross country race strategy and getting better results now, talk to your coach about doing some pace work to give you the tools and knowledge to pace the first third to half of your races better. That should help you race a little better.

But remember why you're doing this and trust the process. Your results this winter and next spring will be your payoff.

I misread what you were saying, I thought you were averaging 6:00 pace for your “on” portions, not your entire workout.

You are more than likely running your first mile anaerobically and it feels fine to you because again, you’re naturally built to run anaerobically. I’m willing to bet you’re splitting like 5:35-6:10-6:40 Next race sit near the back for the first 800m or so, and then just work on passing people for the rest of the race. Your ideal splits are probably more like 5:5x 5:5x 5:4x. Make it an effort to not sprint and go out with the 16:00 guys. You’ll be surprised at how much better you’ll feel through the first couple of miles, and then you’ll be ready to unleash that 400/800m kick.