BowermanTC: Have they performed worse since Shelby was busted???

Diamond League wins?

There aren't many women left on the team, but indoors I remember GDS ran well. Cranny ran 1s off the 10k AR in March and got the indoor 5k record, and Schewizer ran 5 seconds off the 10k AR in Eugene, and Frerichs ran well, even if it wasn't her best year.

The guys had Fisher and Mo run 26:30s and well under 13, along with running well at Worlds. Jager had a comeback year, McGorty made his first team, Kincaid dropped out of the USA 10k but came second in the 5k, Centro had surgery, and Thompson made the world final.

Since the ban in June 2021.

Tokyo: Ahmed Silver, Frerichs Silver, GDS 5th, Fisher 5th and 6th (?)

Indoor season 2022: US records for 5000i and 10000 for Fisher, Canadian records in 5000i and 10000 for Ahmed, GB indoor 5000 rec for Scott and world indoor bronze. North American 5000i + Canadian 3k + world indoors 4th for GDS. NR 5000i for Cranny.

Eugene 2022: highlights would be Fisher and Ahmed both going too 6 in the 5000 and 10000. 6th for Jager. Women were a bit walking wounded by the time Eugene came about.

ie. peaked too early, but have run well this year

1) fisher AR 5k, AR 10k- wc team in both

2) Ahmed 26:34 10k- wc team 5/10k

3) Kincaid world champs team 5k

4) mcgorty world champs team 10k

5) return of Jager after 3 years- wc team steeple 8:14

6) Josh Thompson wc team 1500

7) Marc scott first sub 13 5k wc team 5k

8) Tuntivate wc team 10k- injured

9) Bartelsmeyer- injured

Add to that:

Grant Fisher 3,000 m AR in Monaco

While I concur that the team has done quite well since the ban, I wouldn't include Tokyo (just two months after the ban), as any changes to the doping strategies wouldn't have such a short term impact (not to mention the appeal).

A better comparison would imo be 2020/2021 with 2022/2023. We'll see. So far it's a mixed bag, e.g. as mentioned records and PRs for some in 2022, but two silver medals at Olympics in 2021 and no medals at worlds in 2022.

Fisher and Ahmed comparable (better times, fewer medals), Jager up, Schweizer and Frerichs and Centro down. GDS gone because of Houlihan's training on the same track in part at the same time.

“Quite well” “comparable” “mixed bag” “any changes to doping strategies”

Give your bias a rest. Give your pontificating a rest. Be truthful in that you dislike BTC, Nike.

"pontificating", nice. But yes, it is indeed true that I dislike dopers like Houlihan and their supporters like Schumacher and Flanahan.

BTT: do you disagree that 2022 was so far a "mixed bag" compared to the successes of previous years?

Glad you expressed your real feelings.

From a medal standpoint BTC didn’t fair as well as they and fans had hoped.

From a fast times standpoint, BTC knocked it out of the park and Fisher can hit another home run with hopefully an AR in the 5k in Brussels. It’s a lot to ask of him. His season so far is simply incredible. Hope he is still feeling it. And he was just shy of the medals at worlds in the 10k and it is my feeling he would have medaled in the 5k had he not been cut off by Krop.

So on the back of great times and records from Mo, Grant and Elise, many BTC athletes making it to Worlds and into finals, and near medal misses from Grant I feel it has been an very good year for BTC and US distance running.

OP. I love the question. It shows a good thought process.

Here is the TLDR answer, "No, they've been running great."

The bigger picture is they have run very very extremely fast but have struggled to compete for medals.

That is my criticism of them.

Fisher has not been prefroming worse ....... american records for him doesnt qualify as being bad. Shelby has been forgotten already homie

Are suggesting that the performance of BTC since the time Shelby was busted is something other than random?

BTC men haven't really missed a beat but BTC women have been gutted. Karissa hasn't performed as well as she used to since the bust. Elise has done well. Not sure about Andrea. Courtney has not performed well this year compared to her previous standards.

Your pontification only makes sense when you presume she doped intentionally, as the WADA Code permits. Despite all the rulings and appeals, fundamentally founded on presumptions, the question remains open whether she intentionally doped, or was just railroaded to a 4-year ban because she could no longer collect the necessary evidence to establish "probably not intentional".

Mf said pontification

You can only say someone was “busted,” if they did something wrong. She didn’t do anything wrong, but then again as Chris Derrick shared you can’t expect people who don’t know Shelby personally to believe her, because they’re so used to hearing people actually lie - when someone comes around who wasn’t actually lying, they’ve been duped so many times, it is hard for them to believe.

Oh boy. Seriously, after all this, an anonymous user comes along again and puts the word of this banned doper - banned after getting caught with synthetic nandro - above the findings of AIU/WA/IRNS/CAS/SFT and various independent scientists.

Come on, this stopped being funny two years ago. Drug cheats out!