I found Brett Larner's latest piece to be very interesting. He compiles the # of male/female runners with the WC marathon qualifies by country and then sorts them by GDP as well as the gender equality index. One of his conclusions:
"Among global top 25 economic powers where elite marathoning is a significant thing, Japan is the only country without parity in the sport between women and men. The men outnumber the women 2.5 to 1. Why?"
I don't know. I was about to jump to writing no, they've just set the qualification time wrong, there's nothing in it, but then I read -
The incredible popularity of the Hakone Ekiden makes it a magnet for men's talent that just doesn't exist for women, so that would partially explain participation. But I think what's more relevant here is the distances at Hakone. As I've written before, the intense focus on Hakone's half-marathonish stage distance for four years in university makes it a shorter jump to the marathon, exactly what Hakone was intended to do. At the New Year Ekiden, the corporate men's national championships, there's a stage that length too, and it's not a surprise that most of the top marathoners run it.
None of that exists for women. All the way up, their ekidens are shorter and the longest stage is also shorter than what the men do. In high school the longest stage is 6.0 km for women and 10.0 km for men. At the National University Women's Ekiden it's 9.2 km vs. 19.7 km at the National University Men's Ekiden. At the Mt. Fuji University Women's Ekiden it's 10.5 km against Hakone's 23.1 km. At the National Corporate Women's Ekiden it's 10.9 km vs. 22.4 km at the New Year Ekiden. Only the National Women's Ekiden and National Men's Ekiden, where runners of all ages compete for their home prefectures, come close to equality, women running up to 10.0 km and men 13.0 km.
When the main focus is 10 km it seems like it'd be harder or take longer to work up to the marathon than when it's on the half-marathon, a jump fewer women would take successfully, or at all. Even the National Corporate Half-Marathon is now split between a 10 km and half-marathon for women, but not for men. It's also a fact that back in the day when the women were at their peak globally in the marathon Japan had a whole circuit of women-only half marathons too, and that many of them are gone now.
Not that the marathon is the be-all end-all or that more people running longer younger is necessarily a brilliant idea. One flip side is that more Japanese women qualify on the track, and do better there, than men. But given the context we're talking about maybe having a half-marathonesque stage at the women's university and corporate national championship ekidens would be a good place to start in increasing the numbers of Japanese women having success in the marathon. There are a lot of other things that could stand to be changed, but that seems like one concrete, easy-to-implement takeaway from what's worked with the men that could help bring Japanese women one step closer to parity. Assuming that's a priority, at all.
It sounds like it's due to tradition, and knowing the tradition in other countries, such as women not being able to run the marathon until the 1970s, the 800m being the longest event etc - that was down to sexism.
But with this, I don't know, I don't really think so, especially as he says that with track events it's the other way around, more Japanese women qualify than men.
I just think they set the time wrong, that's all.
Other countries have too. It's nuts to have over 100 people achieving the qualification time (Ethiopia!).
Kind of woke Rojo, Lol.
If sexism was the explanation we would see the same pattern for all sports in Japan. Is that the case?
Historically yes, as with basically all nations on Earth.
Remember for example that Kenyan women and Ethiopian dittos didn't really start winning global medals until twenty years ago when their societies had changed enough for females to pursue running as a career instead of having as many babies as possible straight outta puberty. Uganda is going through the same process right now one generation later.
lmnopq wrote:
If sexism was the explanation we would see the same pattern for all sports in Japan.
That's not necessarily the case. If the sexism manifests in a sports-specific way, e.g. having women run shorter distances than men through high-school, college, and beyond, then it might have specific effects on marathon running that don't apply to other sports.
keep stirring the pot.
did it ever occur to you that maybe some people just don’t want to run? Don’t like running?
track chick wrote:
I don't know. I was about to jump to writing no, they've just set the qualification time wrong, there's nothing in it, but then I read -
The incredible popularity of the Hakone Ekiden makes it a magnet for men's talent that just doesn't exist for women, so that would partially explain participation. But I think what's more relevant here is the distances at Hakone. As I've written before, the intense focus on Hakone's half-marathonish stage distance for four years in university makes it a shorter jump to the marathon, exactly what Hakone was intended to do. At the New Year Ekiden, the corporate men's national championships, there's a stage that length too, and it's not a surprise that most of the top marathoners run it.
None of that exists for women. All the way up, their ekidens are shorter and the longest stage is also shorter than what the men do. In high school the longest stage is 6.0 km for women and 10.0 km for men. At the National University Women's Ekiden it's 9.2 km vs. 19.7 km at the National University Men's Ekiden. At the Mt. Fuji University Women's Ekiden it's 10.5 km against Hakone's 23.1 km. At the National Corporate Women's Ekiden it's 10.9 km vs. 22.4 km at the New Year Ekiden. Only the National Women's Ekiden and National Men's Ekiden, where runners of all ages compete for their home prefectures, come close to equality, women running up to 10.0 km and men 13.0 km.
When the main focus is 10 km it seems like it'd be harder or take longer to work up to the marathon than when it's on the half-marathon, a jump fewer women would take successfully, or at all. Even the National Corporate Half-Marathon is now split between a 10 km and half-marathon for women, but not for men. It's also a fact that back in the day when the women were at their peak globally in the marathon Japan had a whole circuit of women-only half marathons too, and that many of them are gone now.Not that the marathon is the be-all end-all or that more people running longer younger is necessarily a brilliant idea. One flip side is that more Japanese women qualify on the track, and do better there, than men. But given the context we're talking about maybe having a half-marathonesque stage at the women's university and corporate national championship ekidens would be a good place to start in increasing the numbers of Japanese women having success in the marathon. There are a lot of other things that could stand to be changed, but that seems like one concrete, easy-to-implement takeaway from what's worked with the men that could help bring Japanese women one step closer to parity. Assuming that's a priority, at all.
It sounds like it's due to tradition, and knowing the tradition in other countries, such as women not being able to run the marathon until the 1970s, the 800m being the longest event etc - that was down to sexism.
But with this, I don't know, I don't really think so, especially as he says that with track events it's the other way around, more Japanese women qualify than men.
I just think they set the time wrong, that's all.
Other countries have too. It's nuts to have over 100 people achieving the qualification time (Ethiopia!).
Qualifying time refers to the World Championships standard--it doesn't vary by nation and is the same for each nation.
I wonder if more Japanese women really do qualify for the track championships then Japanese men. Larner didn't supply any numbers to back that up.
I was thinking there was a pro female American that trained there and spoke of the negative treatment of females specifically in Japan a few months ago. Someone back me up?
LRnobody wrote:
I was thinking there was a pro female American that trained there and spoke of the negative treatment of females specifically in Japan a few months ago. Someone back me up?
There was an Aussie girl who did it. It was high mileage (like 120) but the longest runs were only 20k. But they were training for 10k and under legs.
You would need to track the money. If you can make money as the 80th best Japanese marathoner running for a team but the 80th best female marathoner needs a full time job, it would explain a lot.
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