Does Sydney's 51.61 show the women's hurdle heights need to be raised 3 inches?

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4 years ago 06/07/2022 1:11pm EDT

From my weekly WTW column.

One big takeaway is that Sydney may already be in world record shape — one would think having the hurdles in the wrong spot would slow you down significantly as it would mess up your rhythm. The other possibility is this shows the women’s hurdles heights should be higher if the goal is to make the event different from the 400m.

The men’s hurdles are six inches taller than the women’s 400m hurdles, yet the average man worldwide is just 4.5 inches taller (67.5 inches (5′ 7.5″) vs 63 inches (5’3″)) than the average woman.

Avg Height (inches)
Men: 67.5
Women: 63

Hurdle Height
Men: 36
Women: 30

Hurdle/Height %
Men: 53.3%
Women: 47.6%

Not that the women and men have to have every event exactly the same, but to get the ratios even, you either need to lower than men’s height to 32.1 inches or raise the women’s up to 33.1. Since all hurdles have a notch at 33 inches, it seems like raising the women’s hurdles up a peg is the way to go.

LRC’s Wejo adds: What if the athletes didn’t know exactly where the hurdles would be each race? Sounds crazy, but track and field needs a little more variability. However, Sydney’s form was so good, she’d probably win wherever the hurdles are set up.

What do you think?

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4 years ago 06/07/2022 1:48pm EDT

re: rojo

The 400h hurdle heights are fine how they are.

And you can't be serious about random hurdle placement. Every race you'd have people getting injured. It's a really bad idea.

4 years ago 06/07/2022 1:54pm EDT

re: rojo

I think the women's 100 and 400 mH should both be raised. Is the height difference similar for the short hurdles? The women's barriers seem like a minor inconvenience for them while the men are going over something that seems very tall.

4 years ago 06/07/2022 1:54pm EDT

re: rojo

I agree with the height as demonstrated by your % comparison. I've always thought that. But you know what Ive REALLY thought? The W high hurdles are WAY TOO LOW. They are only 1 notch up from the height for the 400, which is to say, still lower then M 400. Do that math and you'll see what I mean. The 100 vs 110 % will be even further apart.

4 years ago 06/07/2022 2:11pm EDT

re: rojo

rojo wrote:
From my weekly WTW column.
One big takeaway is that Sydney may already be in world record shape — one would think having the hurdles in the wrong spot would slow you down significantly as it would mess up your rhythm. The other possibility is this shows the women’s hurdles heights should be higher if the goal is to make the event different from the 400m.
The men’s hurdles are six inches taller than the women’s 400m hurdles, yet the average man worldwide is just 4.5 inches taller (67.5 inches (5′ 7.5″) vs 63 inches (5’3″)) than the average woman.
Avg Height (inches)
Men: 67.5
Women: 63

Hurdle Height
Men: 36
Women: 30
Hurdle/Height %
Men: 53.3%
Women: 47.6%
Not that the women and men have to have every event exactly the same, but to get the ratios even, you either need to lower than men’s height to 32.1 inches or raise the women’s up to 33.1. Since all hurdles have a notch at 33 inches, it seems like raising the women’s hurdles up a peg is the way to go.
LRC’s Wejo adds: What if the athletes didn’t know exactly where the hurdles would be each race? Sounds crazy, but track and field needs a little more variability. However, Sydney’s form was so good, she’d probably win wherever the hurdles are set up.
What do you think?
Link:www.letsrun.com/news/2022/06/wtw-sydne...

Horrible idea. 33 is the high hurdle height, so raising intermediates to 33 means raising high hurdles to 36.

High schools and colleges already struggle to get women to run the hurdles. In the state of PA, a pretty big state, only 8 high school women ran under 15 seconds for the 100 hurdles.

Raising the hurdles would cut the number of women racing them in half, and injuries would skyrocket. That would be devastating for the sport.

4 years ago 06/07/2022 2:11pm EDT

re: rojo

4 years ago 06/07/2022 2:21pm EDT

re: rojo

rojo wrote:
From my weekly WTW column.
One big takeaway is that Sydney may already be in world record shape — one would think having the hurdles in the wrong spot would slow you down significantly as it would mess up your rhythm. The other possibility is this shows the women’s hurdles heights should be higher if the goal is to make the event different from the 400m.
The men’s hurdles are six inches taller than the women’s 400m hurdles, yet the average man worldwide is just 4.5 inches taller (67.5 inches (5′ 7.5″) vs 63 inches (5’3″)) than the average woman.
Avg Height (inches)
Men: 67.5
Women: 63

Hurdle Height
Men: 36
Women: 30
Hurdle/Height %
Men: 53.3%
Women: 47.6%
Not that the women and men have to have every event exactly the same, but to get the ratios even, you either need to lower than men’s height to 32.1 inches or raise the women’s up to 33.1. Since all hurdles have a notch at 33 inches, it seems like raising the women’s hurdles up a peg is the way to go.
LRC’s Wejo adds: What if the athletes didn’t know exactly where the hurdles would be each race? Sounds crazy, but track and field needs a little more variability. However, Sydney’s form was so good, she’d probably win wherever the hurdles are set up.
What do you think?
Link:www.letsrun.com/news/2022/06/wtw-sydne...

The one thing you are missing is that the men can jump higher than women. The reason the current hurdle hights are ok is because in addition to the average women being shorter than the average man, they also can't jump as high. This means that the heights of the women's hurdles have to account for the height of women, but also their jumping ability. The current hurdle heights are ok as they are.

4 years ago 06/07/2022 2:27pm EDT

re: rojo

rojo wrote:
From my weekly WTW column.
One big takeaway is that Sydney may already be in world record shape — one would think having the hurdles in the wrong spot would slow you down significantly as it would mess up your rhythm. The other possibility is this shows the women’s hurdles heights should be higher if the goal is to make the event different from the 400m.
The men’s hurdles are six inches taller than the women’s 400m hurdles, yet the average man worldwide is just 4.5 inches taller (67.5 inches (5′ 7.5″) vs 63 inches (5’3″)) than the average woman.
Avg Height (inches)
Men: 67.5
Women: 63

Hurdle Height
Men: 36
Women: 30
Hurdle/Height %
Men: 53.3%
Women: 47.6%
Not that the women and men have to have every event exactly the same, but to get the ratios even, you either need to lower than men’s height to 32.1 inches or raise the women’s up to 33.1. Since all hurdles have a notch at 33 inches, it seems like raising the women’s hurdles up a peg is the way to go.
LRC’s Wejo adds: What if the athletes didn’t know exactly where the hurdles would be each race? Sounds crazy, but track and field needs a little more variability. However, Sydney’s form was so good, she’d probably win wherever the hurdles are set up.
What do you think?
Link:www.letsrun.com/news/2022/06/wtw-sydne...

Quite possibly the stupidest take yet.

So, Athing runs the 800 to fast so maybe we need to make it 810 meters. Mondo vaults too high so maybe we should make him use a shorter pole.

Maybe Syd is just good, or is that not a thing anymore?

4 years ago 06/07/2022 2:39pm EDT

re: rojo

rojo wrote:
From my weekly WTW column.
One big takeaway is that Sydney may already be in world record shape — one would think having the hurdles in the wrong spot would slow you down significantly as it would mess up your rhythm. The other possibility is this shows the women’s hurdles heights should be higher if the goal is to make the event different from the 400m.
The men’s hurdles are six inches taller than the women’s 400m hurdles, yet the average man worldwide is just 4.5 inches taller (67.5 inches (5′ 7.5″) vs 63 inches (5’3″)) than the average woman.
Avg Height (inches)
Men: 67.5
Women: 63

Hurdle Height
Men: 36
Women: 30
Hurdle/Height %
Men: 53.3%
Women: 47.6%
Not that the women and men have to have every event exactly the same, but to get the ratios even, you either need to lower than men’s height to 32.1 inches or raise the women’s up to 33.1. Since all hurdles have a notch at 33 inches, it seems like raising the women’s hurdles up a peg is the way to go.
LRC’s Wejo adds: What if the athletes didn’t know exactly where the hurdles would be each race? Sounds crazy, but track and field needs a little more variability. However, Sydney’s form was so good, she’d probably win wherever the hurdles are set up.
What do you think?
Link:www.letsrun.com/news/2022/06/wtw-sydne...

The 400H height for women at 30" is fine. The 100H height needs to be raised to 36" from 33" to make it a true hurdle event like the men's 110H. Today any fast 100m woman who has decent/average hurdle ability can run 13.5 or better. The fast women with good form are all under 13 seconds. People have been saying for decades that the 100H height needs raising.

4 years ago 06/07/2022 3:05pm EDT

re: rojo

Not sure on this but shouldn't you do the calculation based on hip height and not total height of men/women?

4 years ago 06/07/2022 3:41pm EDT

re: horrible idea

The fact that the men's intermediate hurdles is the same height as the women's "high" hurdles is kind of goofy, but I also don't think hurdle heights need to be/should be changed.

4 years ago 06/07/2022 3:41pm EDT

By the same 'logic' we should raise the men's 400 hurdle height since Warholm is barely slowed relative to without hurdles.

4 years ago 06/07/2022 3:45pm EDT

re: dumbassMF

dumbassMF wrote:
By the same 'logic' we should raise the men's 400 hurdle height since Warholm is barely slowed relative to without hurdles.

Weldon also didn't understand how this race made want to make this point.

I've always thought the women's hurdles are too low. Running super fast is not the point. It's the fact that the hurdle was in some random spot and it barely impacted her as the hurdles are so easy to get over.

The easier way to understand my argument is to look at the ratio in the chart.

4 years ago 06/07/2022 3:59pm EDT

re: rojo

rojo wrote:
dumbassMF wrote:
By the same 'logic' we should raise the men's 400 hurdle height since Warholm is barely slowed relative to without hurdles.
Weldon also didn't understand how this race made want to make this point.
I've always thought the women's hurdles are too low. Running super fast is not the point. It's the fact that the hurdle was in some random spot and it barely impacted her as the hurdles are so easy to get over.
The easier way to understand my argument is to look at the ratio in the chart.

The better argument would be to make them rigid barriers as in the steeplechase, that would slow them down after a few destroyed patellae.

4 years ago 06/07/2022 4:00pm EDT

re: rojo

Men’s 400 vs 400h WR: 43.03 vs. 45.94

Women’s 400 vs 400h WR: 47.60 vs 51.46

The 6.8% slowdown for men compared to 8.1% for women suggests that women’s hurdles are harder, not easier, as they are, so if at all, any hurdle height change consideration should be to increase the height for men or reduce it further for women.

4 years ago 06/07/2022 4:23pm EDT

re: hmm.

hmm. wrote:
Men’s 400 vs 400h WR: 43.03 vs. 45.94
Women’s 400 vs 400h WR: 47.60 vs 51.46
The 6.8% slowdown for men compared to 8.1% for women suggests that women’s hurdles are harder, not easier, as they are, so if at all, any hurdle height change consideration should be to increase the height for men or reduce it further for women.

I think this data is screwed by the absurdly dirty womens 400m flat record.

4 years ago 06/07/2022 4:26pm EDT

re: Ray Cyst

Ray Cyst wrote:
rojo wrote:
From my weekly WTW column.
One big takeaway is that Sydney may already be in world record shape — one would think having the hurdles in the wrong spot would slow you down significantly as it would mess up your rhythm. The other possibility is this shows the women’s hurdles heights should be higher if the goal is to make the event different from the 400m.
The men’s hurdles are six inches taller than the women’s 400m hurdles, yet the average man worldwide is just 4.5 inches taller (67.5 inches (5′ 7.5″) vs 63 inches (5’3″)) than the average woman.
Avg Height (inches)
Men: 67.5
Women: 63

Hurdle Height
Men: 36
Women: 30
Hurdle/Height %
Men: 53.3%
Women: 47.6%
Not that the women and men have to have every event exactly the same, but to get the ratios even, you either need to lower than men’s height to 32.1 inches or raise the women’s up to 33.1. Since all hurdles have a notch at 33 inches, it seems like raising the women’s hurdles up a peg is the way to go.
LRC’s Wejo adds: What if the athletes didn’t know exactly where the hurdles would be each race? Sounds crazy, but track and field needs a little more variability. However, Sydney’s form was so good, she’d probably win wherever the hurdles are set up.
What do you think?
Link:www.letsrun.com/news/2022/06/wtw-sydne...
Quite possibly the stupidest take yet.
So, Athing runs the 800 to fast so maybe we need to make it 810 meters. Mondo vaults too high so maybe we should make him use a shorter pole.
Maybe Syd is just good, or is that not a thing anymore?

Too good? Pretty sure the womens 400mh is weak relative to the mens, even with relatively lower hurdles.

syds at the top but I wouldn’t be surprised if someone ran sub 51 in a decade or so.

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Does Sydney's 51.61 show the women's hurdle heights need to be raised 3 inches?

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