I have run on the junior high track where Martin trains at times. Actually, it is mostly cinders with some grass growing and is very slow. Maybe this could be added resistance to his training?
It speaks volumes that the only valid comparison for 2022 HS milers is 1960s Jim Ryun, not Webb, not Liquori, not anyone else. His 3:55 in 1965 is like Bob Beamon in the 68 Olympics, a landmark performance that was eventually broken, but will always be the reference for everyone who follows them.
For an age class record? No disrespect on an amazing run, but black page needs to be reserved for world/Olympic golds (or shocking silver/bronze like Molly S), significant national records, and accomplishments of that caliber.
I realize times have changed, but I’m old enough to remember Jim Ryun and to have watched him compete many times. Jim Ryun was a national celebrity and known to the majority of Americans when he finished HS. Comparing him and what he accomplished to people like Sahlman or Martin is laughable. I knew of Ryun and was aware of his exploits and I was in grade school, years before becoming a runner myself. Ryun was up there with Ali, Mays, Unitas, Jim Brown. Can you imagine a world now where Sahlman is mentioned along with Brady and Lebron? No, Jim Ryun is not dethroned and imo, he never will be given the historical context.
I've never seen a cinder track but I always wondered if you could get certain cinder tracks that feels more like a hard packed dirt track. That's how I make sense of Ryuns times lol. I assume he was running on the "mondo-cinder" tracks lol
Martin trains every day on a cinder track….in the LRC interview he discussed how it’s slow, like running on sand sometimes.
I've never seen a cinder track but I always wondered if you could get certain cinder tracks that feels more like a hard packed dirt track. That's how I make sense of Ryuns times lol. I assume he was running on the "mondo-cinder" tracks lol
I ran on a high quality cinder track all through HS, and it was fast, not any/much different from some of the first generation synthetic tracks available at other nearby schools. However, in college I got to experience next gen tracks, and they certainly FELT much faster. Hard to know if it was me or the track.
1964 HS Junior He ran 4:06.4 wins state meet in national hs record time He ran 4:01.7 on cinders Modesto He ran 3:59.0 in cinders Compton He ran 3:39.0 on poorly maintained cinders Rutgers AAU (4th) He ran 3:41.9 on really chopped up cinders LA Olympic Trials (3rd 53.5 last lap)
1965 HS Senior He ran 4:04.4 on cinders Wichita He ran 4:02.0 on cinders He ran 3:58.3 on really chopped up cinders in the state meet. Wichita He ran 3:56.8 on cinders LA He ran 3:55.3 on synthetic San Diego
College Freshman He ran 3:55.8 on chopped up cinders Lawrence KS He ran 3:53.7 on cinders Compton He ran 3:58.6 on cinders AAU NY He ran 3:51.3 on well maintained cinders
College Sophomore He ran 3:51.1 on cinders He ran 3:33.1 on cinders.
Seeing it all listed out really brings it home. Greatest high school athlete of all time period. Not just in running.
Until this year Jim Ryun occupied the 2nd, 3rd, 6th, 8th, and 10th fastest miles ever run by a high schooler
thanks to the combined efforts of the GOAT class of 2022, Ryun now holds the 2nd, 4th, 7th, and 10th fastest times.
the king has given up one of his spots on the all time top ten list, now only occupying 40% of the slots. He has also lost his Jr Class Record to Connor Burns.
The year is not over.
Very interested to see
Martin v Bergen at brooks PR, hopefully Bergen can get dragged under 3:59 like burns today
+ Colin and Aaron running the 800 together again, people are saying Aaron is fizzled this season, but I think he just needs someone on the team to push him. Don’t think he can run sub 1:49 again but I think Colin can PR and drag Aaron sub 1:50 again and maybe 1-2 more
What else is happening
Bergen isn’t even the best miler in his county.
Eh, McCormick is a great runner. No reason that just because Bergen lost to him he can't run 3:59. Ran 4:03 at Nike Outdoors last year and 4:02i this year. He has a good shot.
Both he and McCormick would have a shot. But I do think Bergen is slightly fitter than McCormick -- he just decided to try to lead all the state races because he was returning 800, 1600, and 3200 champion. Worked in the 800 where the burden of leading is less, but didn't work in the longer stuff -- Connor ate him up in the last lap of the 1600 & 3200. I also think Bergen made the mistake of thinking he could peak for Brooks and still win 3x at state.
And this is what amazes me about Jim Ryun the most. What he did back then was INSANE and what he could do today would absolutely draw us mad. 3:51 today is extremely impressive and is far better than what Burns did yesterday. Not turning down Burns achievement, which was pretty nuts for a Junior but ya know. Like 3:51 in HS would be mind boggling in every layer.
And this is what amazes me about Jim Ryun the most. What he did back then was INSANE and what he could do today would absolutely draw us mad. 3:51 today is extremely impressive and is far better than what Burns did yesterday. Not turning down Burns achievement, which was pretty nuts for a Junior but ya know. Like 3:51 in HS would be mind boggling in every layer.
3:51.3 WR .. @‘19yo in 1966, was run AFTER high school. Burns is fantastic.. Ryun was otherworldly on par J. ING.
If HS Jim Ryun was running today, he would have run 3:51 in HS. Ok, somebody had to say it…..there it’s done.
Beat me to it; Jim Ryun with today's shoes, tracks, nutrition, and training knowledge, would crush this class of runners, fast as they are. Wouldn't even be a contest.
With everything available today, Ryun would make this year’s WC team, maybe even finishing 2nd at USAs between Hocker and Centro.
Beat me to it; Jim Ryun with today's shoes, tracks, nutrition, and training knowledge, would crush this class of runners, fast as they are. Wouldn't even be a contest.
With everything available today, Ryun would make this year’s WC team, maybe even finishing 2nd at USAs between Hocker and Centro.
He made the ‘64 Olympic team as a 17 year old with a best time of 3:39.0, then topped that off by beating the reigning Olympic Champ a year later in an AR 3:55.3. Then WRs in each of the next two years at 19 and 20. I don’t think that will ever happen again over that span and age groups - the records, not the times. Although the times he ran are still damn fast regardless of shoes and surfaces.
1962-63 15 year old sophomore - 5:38 mile time trial - 11:51 2 mile XC first time trial - 11:23 4th is first JV race - won the next JV race - 10:36 in first varsity race, eventually becoming Wichita East's top runner - 6th at State meet, leading the team to victory. - 4:40 self-timed time trial during the winter of his sophomore year - 4:32.2 loses his first mile race by 0.2 to defending State champ Charles Harper - 4:26.5 down 15 meters with 100 to go, Ryun digs deep and finds that kick of his, winning his first mile over Harper. - 4:21.7 leads from gun to tape for win #2 - 4:21.3 wins again, runs first 880, a leg of winning 2mile relay team age 16 - wins another mile - 4:16.2 wins state meet - 4:08.2 MVAAU loses to college runner, doubles back with 1:54.5 880 (5th) - 1:53.6 5th again, behind four college kids - 4:07.8 USTFF 6th to college kids
During the Summer he ran 5 miles every day at 5:30am. The harder he worked, the more talented he became. Will YOU run 5 miles at 5:30 am this Summer? Will you?
1963-64 Junior year 16 years old - Undefeated in cross country - 4 mile AAU XC meet against college runners he finished 3rd - indoor meet at Cow Palace (SF) Lindgren in race. Ryun stumbles off track then finishes well back in 9:22.6 age 17 - 4:06.4 wins state meet in national hs record time. - 4:01.7 3rd in Modesto behind Burleson and O'Hara - 3:59.0 8th in Compton, first ime that 8 runner had broken 4:00 in the same race, and the first time a hs kid broke 4:00. - 1:50.3 5th in open competition - 9:06.5 in KS allcomers - 3:39.0 4th at AAU 1500m - 3:46.1 4th NY Randalls Island OT - 3:41.9 3rd LA Olympic Trials (53.7 last lap) - 3:44.4 4th Tokyo heats - 3:55 DFL Tokyo semi
1964-65 senior year 17 years old - 4:07.2 State Indoor meet - 4:04.4 Wichita East Invite - 4:02.0 Hutchichson Invite age 18 - 3:58.3 State meet win, first and only sub 4:00 in all hs competition - 3:58.1 1st California Relays Compton, CA - 3:56.8 Modesto 3rd behind Snell and Grelle - 4:04.3 Golden West HS 1st - 9:04 Golden West HS 1st - 3:55.3 1st San Diego American Record, defeats Snell - 3:40.4 2nd US/USSR dual meet - 3:49.9 1st US/Poland dual meet - 3:41.6 1st US/Germany
1965-66 Freshman college 18 years old - 3:42.7 1st Sugar Bowl - 4:02.2 1st Millrose Games - 4:03.9 1st Texas Relays - 8:47.4 1st two mile SW Relays - 3:58 4x1 mile Emporia Relays, ¾ of DMR, 47.6 on 4x440 - 3:59 DMR Kansas Relays - 3:55.8 Kansas Relays age 19 - 8:25.2 Los Angeles American Record, beats Grelle and Keino - 3:53.7 Compton Relays 0.1 short of Jazy’s WR - 1:44.9 World Record Terre Haute, IN - 4:02.8 47.8 relay - 3:58.6 AAU - 3:51.3 World Record Berkeley