It’s gotten to the point of where people across the board are running too fast compared to when super shoes didn’t exist. Accomplishments that were seen as nearly impossible have become much more attainable. Most recently, two high schoolers broke 4 minutes in the mile in the same race making it three total high schoolers to do it JUST THIS YEAR. They need to be banned for our sport.
It’s gotten to the point of where people across the board are running too fast compared to when super shoes didn’t exist. Accomplishments that were seen as nearly impossible have become much more attainable. Most recently, two high schoolers broke 4 minutes in the mile in the same race making it three total high schoolers to do it JUST THIS YEAR. They need to be banned for our sport.
Sorry, that ship has already sailed. Super shoes are here to stay.
Cool. Good luck making a ban that makes sense What do you ban? Carbon Fibre plates? Dragonfly plate is plastic. Stack height? That's already been capped, and not even all the next gen spikes have that big a stack height anyway.
You figure out what you want to ban, and the nerds out in Beaverton will find a way to claw back time within a few years anyway. In fact, that's a huge point - Brooks, ON, Hoka, etc are all just catching up to Nike and New Balance this season. It took the smaller companies 3 years to fully catch up (Nike and NB prototypes were out there circa mid 2019). You move the goal posts again and Nike will be able to throw money to pivot under the new designs the fastest and we'll be back in the position of Josh Kerr and Joe Klecker having to rock unlabeled Nike's or be less competitive.
Cool. Good luck making a ban that makes sense What do you ban? Carbon Fibre plates? Dragonfly plate is plastic. Stack height? That's already been capped, and not even all the next gen spikes have that big a stack height anyway.
You figure out what you want to ban, and the nerds out in Beaverton will find a way to claw back time within a few years anyway. In fact, that's a huge point - Brooks, ON, Hoka, etc are all just catching up to Nike and New Balance this season. It took the smaller companies 3 years to fully catch up (Nike and NB prototypes were out there circa mid 2019). You move the goal posts again and Nike will be able to throw money to pivot under the new designs the fastest and we'll be back in the position of Josh Kerr and Joe Klecker having to rock unlabeled Nike's or be less competitive.
No. There comes a point of diminishing returns. There is only so much juiced to be squeezed from the pomegranate.
So what is the asymptote of shoe performance with the current rule constraints?
Sorry, track is a full-blown clown show where anything goes and no one gives a crap. Some guy on the pga just got disqualified for putting white out on his club. White out! But not track. Spring-loaded carbon fiber shoes? Where’s the problem? 10 guys under the previous ncaa championship record? What’s not to like about that? Keep up the clowning around folks. It’s hilarious. No wonder no one showed up to Pre.
That race tonight was exciting. And it was FREE to watch on the internet! And one can go back and watch it again and again, if they want to, for FREE! No flotrak or USATF to mess it up. And did I mention history was set in the men's mile race?
Sorry, track is a full-blown clown show where anything goes and no one gives a crap. Some guy on the pga just got disqualified for putting white out on his club. White out! But not track. Spring-loaded carbon fiber shoes? Where’s the problem? 10 guys under the previous ncaa championship record? What’s not to like about that? Keep up the clowning around folks. It’s hilarious. No wonder no one showed up to Pre.
Strange, all spikes have always been super shoes, spikes for for extra grip (aka speed) a bottom plate for the spikes to screw into (aka spring) more than enough foam for a gravel or modern track…
They manufacturers just realise with the already super shoe components they can get away with them being lighter and bouncier aka more unstable
Cool. Good luck making a ban that makes sense What do you ban? Carbon Fibre plates? Dragonfly plate is plastic. Stack height? That's already been capped, and not even all the next gen spikes have that big a stack height anyway.
You figure out what you want to ban, and the nerds out in Beaverton will find a way to claw back time within a few years anyway. In fact, that's a huge point - Brooks, ON, Hoka, etc are all just catching up to Nike and New Balance this season. It took the smaller companies 3 years to fully catch up (Nike and NB prototypes were out there circa mid 2019). You move the goal posts again and Nike will be able to throw money to pivot under the new designs the fastest and we'll be back in the position of Josh Kerr and Joe Klecker having to rock unlabeled Nike's or be less competitive.
Someone's downvoted this, but I challenge people: what do you ban? What technical aspect of the current crop of spikes is to blame for the "clown show" that can be quickly removed?
Way too late. I think Geoff Burns had the right idea: put a hard limit on stack height and let people innovate within that space. That puts a hard limit on what can be done but still allows innovation if you're smart and creative. I think the current limit is too high for road shoes, 40mm is too much space, it should be reduced to, at most, 35mm
I downvoted your second paragraph, when you insinuated a certain company is way ahead, and will continue to be way ahead. As I surmised, within the current geometric shoe constraints, there is only so much performance left to eek out.
That is difficult to do, since there is even some spring effect from just the foams.
If there was will, it could be done pretty easily. If WA mandated that the midsoles of road shoes can only be made from foam and rubber then you'd massively reduce the spring effect. The foams are springy but if you compare a shoe made with some of those advanced foams which don't have a plate (such as the Invincible or Streakfly), they're nowhere near the same, no better than a standard racing flat. But the genie is out of the bottle now, that combination of compliant foam and carbon plate is an industry standard rather than a novelty that one company has. Best to just move with the times.
That is difficult to do, since there is even some spring effect from just the foams.
If there was will, it could be done pretty easily. If WA mandated that the midsoles of road shoes can only be made from foam and rubber then you'd massively reduce the spring effect. The foams are springy but if you compare a shoe made with some of those advanced foams which don't have a plate (such as the Invincible or Streakfly), they're nowhere near the same, no better than a standard racing flat. But the genie is out of the bottle now, that combination of compliant foam and carbon plate is an industry standard rather than a novelty that one company has. Best to just move with the times.
I would rather see faster times with less injuries. I also agree with the poster pointing out we are finally reaching a parity with shoe companies. Let’s not reset that.
If you are talking about younger runners I think it is multifactorial, not just the shoes. Kids now have gps watches that let the coaches see they are running too hard on easy days. Training information is more accessible than ever. Social apps let them see what others on their team are doing outside of practice.
Kids that might have been in football in the past are running because their parents don’t want them to have brain damage. When it comes to the shoes the biggest benefit is in training, they allow faster recovery from hard workouts and races. So banning them in races might also not change things as much as you think.
There has to be a line drawn somewhere. What if Nike comes out with a shoe with wheels on it allowing people to skate to new records? I know that's silly, but it makes my point: at some point, it's no longer running...it's pogo-ing.
I would rather see faster times with less injuries.
Then go follow cycling.
If you want to be real, doping has ruined what world records look like in running a long time ago. The times are already meaningless. With the shoes it is at least obvious what everyone is using.