not bad for a return to form
not bad for a return to form
bump
if gabe started a cult... i would join
Decent
HRE wrote:
Decent
How? 2:19 sucks. Has the bar been lowered that much?
You forgot about the Gabe conversion factor. Take overall time, subtract 5% and get the "Gabe" time. 2:19 then converts down to 2:12 and is pretty good. When you are a cult hero, things like this apply to you.
No, what makes this decent is that Gabe is not a marathoner, or even a half-marathoner or 10k guy. His primary event is the 1500, and only a few years ago-- when he was committed to his training-- was one of the best milers the US had. This is a sign that the commitment he once had may be returning, and that one of the better talents of the last decade could be ready to jump back into the ring and try to mix it up with the ever-growing crop of fast, young American milers.
I don't believe he has ever run sub 3:35. The young crop is better now than he ever was, we just had some incredibly low standards back in 2000. Same in the marathon same in the 5k and 10k. The times they are a changin
Low expectations wrote:
HRE wrote:Decent
How? 2:19 sucks. Has the bar been lowered that much?
Explain to me how a 2:19 marathon sucks.
Do any of you know where to find results from Cal? They aren't on the website, but apparently they're somewhere since someone knew how fast Gabe ran.
Thanks!
Trisha
Absolutely impressive. He is a miler. One of our best ones. He led most of the 'thon. It wasn't a time trial like Chicago with so many running fast. I'm glad to see him back & running strong. Great base for fast miles come spring/summer.
Woody Wilson wrote:
Explain to me how a 2:19 marathon sucks.
I'll give it a stab:
1. The poster is:
a. 13-19, an average to poor long distance runner who spends more time each day reading Letsrun.com than training
b. 20-24, around the college years, never amounted to much and probably made no college teams, gave the marathon a try perhaps because he wasn't allowed to run any D1-3 meets, and failed abominably
c. 30+, trying marathons now and running what actually are sucky times
2. The poster has convinced himself that his failures are due to genetics, "not having a good day," or various other worthless excuses.
3. Because of the poster's abysmal failures in his own running and his spenind of several hours a day on Letsrun.com, he has come to expect others to fulfill his unrealistic expectations.
He has projected his own failures onto others and, when others do not run spectacular times, the poster ridicules them just as he has been ridiculed because it makes him feel better about himself.
4. This is the type of poster that begins threads such as (and, make no mistake, these have been real threads or the gist thereof):
Geb 2:06 in Amsterdam, he sucks
Bekele 26:17, He's juiced
Ramzi wins WC double, juiced
Meb wins Oly silver; he sucks because he didn't go after Baldini and win gold
Webb, 9th in WC final after not making the Oly final the year before; he sucks
Ritzenhein, 8:23 2 mile, 13:22 5,000, 7:43 3,000: He sucks
And on and on. The above should clearly reflect both that no poster who produces such filth could hope to approach even a sliver of these performances and that their nonsense should not be taken to heart.
A 2:19 marathon is an amazing time, bordering world class, and, with proper training, indicative of the potential perhaps to shave 5-6 minutes off after 3-4 years and BE world class (e.g. Trent Briney 2:21 to 2:14, Matt Downin 2:18 to 2:14, etc.).
Just to let you know some of the stats on Gabe's race. The race was shown live on local Sacramento TV, so I was able to watch most of the race (although they tended to concentrate on the race in general rather than the leaders). Gabe took the lead around the 7 mile mark. He was being paced by his coach (was it Mahon, I can't remember) until the half marathon. He came by the half in about 1:07:10 (working on memory). He built up a large lead, but around 22-23 miles he obviously started to break down (the course ACTUALLY had a brick wall that runners had to run by at the 20 mile mark). At about 25 miles, a Russian runner caught up to Gabe and it was clearly all over. The Russian finished in the low 2:18's after finishing another marathon 3 weeks ago. Gabe finished in second at about 2:19:33 (memory). Afterwards he was interviewed by the local tv people. He is clearly still a nutty person. If you remember his interviews from 2000 Olympics, he seemed a LITTLE more coherent this time, but not by much. He was talking about how painful the last 10K was and that he was definitely doing a marathon again, but only once a year. He was saying how he enjoyed running in "seasons" and that he will be doing track races in the spring.
I would say your account is correct. I am watching the coverage now (the power of TiVo). Funny how the announcers handed him the race (maybe they have never seen a Marathon before) WAY too early. It was bizarre though Segey Fedatov from Russia was leading early, then disappeared and Gabe and Mahon were leading. Didn't see that early pass but Sergey disappeared, maybe he stepped in the bathroom? Because Gabe was out in front by a ton. The Gabe crashed late and the Russian caught him. Gabe showed up to the awards with his parents wearing a fidora hat and they were all drinking red wine. Not that there's anything wrong with that just an observation.
Didn't Bill Rodgers debut at 2:19? Maybe in a year Gabe will be running 2:09.
Interesting that the winning time was 2:18. What was the weather? Without looking at the website again (no results posted as of a few minutes ago), I presume they still give the winner a cheque for $10K. Usually, that induces a 2:12 or so winning time. I believe Bruce Deacon won for a third time there in 2:20something for the slowest winning time in race history, but that was with a billion mile an hour head winds. Or at least they felt like that to me when I got hypothermia and dropped out at 16 mile. Good for Gabe, though. Could he try harder and go faster? How the hell should I know. But I do know that for anybody, 2:19 requires more than lying around on the couch drinking beer and watching football all Sunday long.
Fat Old Man wrote:
But I do know that for anybody, 2:19 requires more than lying around on the couch drinking beer and watching football all Sunday long.
It does? Damn. My plan for making the "A" standard for the 08 Trials just went out the window.
Rodgers debuted in a DNF then a 2:29 in the fall of 1974 which he ran with me making him run very slowly for the first five so he could be sure to finish then after 20 he ran five minutes miles while I ran 5:20s, then a 2:09 in '75 where he ran all 5:00 and I ran all 5:20s for a 2:19. So I would figure Gabe is way ahead of Rodgers at this point.
But Rodgers was not a fast 1500 guy so had a pressing necessity to race the marathon. Gabe may not have that. I certainly would never have moved up to the marathon if I could have gone to the Olympic trials in the shorter races. Maybe Gabe would not be so driven to be a marathon racer if he has an option of racing in shorter events.
Desparation is the mother of intention.
Tom
Derderian wrote:
Rodgers debuted in a DNF then a 2:29 in the fall of 1974 which he ran with me making him run very slowly for the first five so he could be sure to finish then after 20 he ran five minutes miles while I ran 5:20s, then a 2:09 in '75 where he ran all 5:00 and I ran all 5:20s for a 2:19. So I would figure Gabe is way ahead of Rodgers at this point.
But Rodgers was not a fast 1500 guy so had a pressing necessity to race the marathon. Gabe may not have that. I certainly would never have moved up to the marathon if I could have gone to the Olympic trials in the shorter races. Maybe Gabe would not be so driven to be a marathon racer if he has an option of racing in shorter events.
Desparation is the mother of intention.
Tom
I posted elsewhere that to put things in perspective, 2:19 is a top woman's time, although well above the WR pace of 2:15. In other events would we be thinking he is really ready to roll of he did a top woman's time, such as 4:00 for 1500, 14:30 for 5000, 30:20 for 10,000? I still think these comparisons tell us something.
However, the quoted poster knows whereof he speaks and I respect him and his opinions. I really hope that Gabe returns steadily to his top national-class level. However, even if he does not, his times are still very good and his past was great. He is an "odd bird", but I do not mean that is a negative sense; he is different from most people (and I have bought shoes from him and saw him in his pre-star, but clearly a very top runner, phase). I would love to see him running 3:3x, 13:2x, 27:xx, or 2:09-2:12.
Woody Wilson wrote:
Explain to me how a 2:19 marathon sucks.
What that other guy said
"I posted elsewhere that to put things in perspective, 2:19 is a top woman's time, although well above the WR pace of 2:15. In other events would we be thinking he is really ready to roll of he did a top woman's time, such as 4:00 for 1500, 14:30 for 5000, 30:20 for 10,000? I still think these comparisons tell us something"