I also think it's likely even a good marathon is beyond him but you never know. A 2:06 can get someone on the podium at Chicago or Berlin. He was also a good XC runner so I can see him giving Boston a good go as well. But watching him struggle to 28:44 makes me think 2:06 may even be beyond him now, and I think 60:XX for HM would be a real stretch. I hope I'm wrong, I'd like to see him retire on a decent performance
I’d like to see him try to push his usual regimen to try and do a Lance 2.0. We all know what happened with that.
completely agree, but I think the ship has sailed for him…perhaps he could muster a 60 min half / 2:06 on a flat course, but I can’t see him on the podium anywhere competitive
Agree. The decline seems fairly linear in last 4 years fairly regardless of injuries. That world record at one hour was hyped up by some generic "athletics journalists" too lazy to dig a bit deeper. Then the 27.5x in London on track, then the slightly slower one on track a few weeks later, and now this. One way or another today's race didnt include any of the other Brits who on current form would expect to beat Cross.
completely agree, but I think the ship has sailed for him…perhaps he could muster a 60 min half / 2:06 on a flat course, but I can’t see him on the podium anywhere competitive
Agree. The decline seems fairly linear in last 4 years fairly regardless of injuries. That world record at one hour was hyped up by some generic "athletics journalists" too lazy to dig a bit deeper. Then the 27.5x in London on track, then the slightly slower one on track a few weeks later, and now this. One way or another today's race didnt include any of the other Brits who on current form would expect to beat Cross.
Getting old sucks, (for everybody but Kipchoge apparently). Why should it be any different for Farah? Best you can do is come to terms with it with humor and grace.
completely agree, but I think the ship has sailed for him…perhaps he could muster a 60 min half / 2:06 on a flat course, but I can’t see him on the podium anywhere competitive
Agree. The decline seems fairly linear in last 4 years fairly regardless of injuries. That world record at one hour was hyped up by some generic "athletics journalists" too lazy to dig a bit deeper. Then the 27.5x in London on track, then the slightly slower one on track a few weeks later, and now this. One way or another today's race didnt include any of the other Brits who on current form would expect to beat Cross.
No reason for people like Marc Scott, Emile Cairess, or Patrick Dever to travel for this. Prize money was £2k for first place. It's really a mass participation race with a few elites thrown in. The women's race tends to be more competitive.
Farah's hour record was actually pretty good. Basically a sub-60 HM, which he hasn't run that many times. It's obviously a soft World Record, but as a performance for him, it was good.
Agree. The decline seems fairly linear in last 4 years fairly regardless of injuries. That world record at one hour was hyped up by some generic "athletics journalists" too lazy to dig a bit deeper. Then the 27.5x in London on track, then the slightly slower one on track a few weeks later, and now this. One way or another today's race didnt include any of the other Brits who on current form would expect to beat Cross.
No reason for people like Marc Scott, Emile Cairess, or Patrick Dever to travel for this. Prize money was £2k for first place. It's really a mass participation race with a few elites thrown in. The women's race tends to be more competitive.
Farah's hour record was actually pretty good. Basically a sub-60 HM, which he hasn't run that many times. It's obviously a soft World Record, but as a performance for him, it was good.
Agreed. Farah's marathon best is roughly on par with his 10km PR. Nothing to be ashamed of there.
Now, I do think he probably had another 18-20 seconds in him in the 10k (and I reckon most here would agree, given the sit and kick era he raced in). That puts his marathon potential at 2:03:30 ish. He was 36 when he ran his marathon PR; could he have run 90 seconds quicker 8 years earlier? I think so. We'll never know, unfortunately, but nonetheless, he has run exceptionally well in the marathon for a 3:28 1500m guy! (Still his best run + event, as weird as that might sound given his long distance success).
End of the day, it's a shame people here yell 'drugs!' without stopping to understand the full story (and here I know I will lose some of you-- I only hope you treat Rupp with equal or more suspicion, given the T talk and hollowed out books). There is no question Mo was supremely talented. Canova tells the story of Mo managing 12:50 low off minimal training and recent sickness shortly before the coaching move to NOP. Salazar gave him much-needed strength, closing power, and most important, made him take things seriously. Farah embraced the lifestyle. Did Farah do those same things for the marathon? Was the marathon training too long and the racing too dull for him? Maybe, maybe not. But regardless, he will go down as the greatest racer ever, and I'm happy to have watched his electrifying Olympic doubles live!
Yeah, I always found Farah's races pretty electrifying. You say he raced in a sit and kick era, but the fact is, Farah had the 2nd and 4th fastest championship wins ever until his first retirement, only Bekele had ever run faster in championship 10k races (since then, Cheptegei has run 2nd fastest, but in super shoes). Haile G never won a championship 10k in a time faster than Farah.
The knock on Farah is he never time trialled a WR attempt. My guess is he knew he couldn't but I'm convinced he had at least a 26:39 and 12:42 in his legs. I'd love someone to ask him if he ever TTd a PB in training.
As for the drug allegations; hard to prove now. Magness and others around NOP only came up with strong suspicions. The only people who know for sure are Farah and Salazar, maybe the latter will talk one day. But Rupp gets as much crap as Farah, there's just a little less concern since he never actually won any titles.
Is it safe to say Farah’s drug use took him from a sub elite to two-time distance double Olympic champion? That’s pretty crazy to think about. Anyways, obviously Farah is well past his prime. The kid that beat him is living the sub elite dream. Pay your entry fee and beat a household name, relatively speaking, at a large race. Every sub elite dreams of that.
Agreed. Farah's marathon best is roughly on par with his 10km PR. Nothing to be ashamed of there.
Now, I do think he probably had another 18-20 seconds in him in the 10k (and I reckon most here would agree, given the sit and kick era he raced in). That puts his marathon potential at 2:03:30 ish. He was 36 when he ran his marathon PR; could he have run 90 seconds quicker 8 years earlier? I think so. We'll never know, unfortunately, but nonetheless, he has run exceptionally well in the marathon for a 3:28 1500m guy! (Still his best run + event, as weird as that might sound given his long distance success).
End of the day, it's a shame people here yell 'drugs!' without stopping to understand the full story (and here I know I will lose some of you-- I only hope you treat Rupp with equal or more suspicion, given the T talk and hollowed out books). There is no question Mo was supremely talented. Canova tells the story of Mo managing 12:50 low off minimal training and recent sickness shortly before the coaching move to NOP. Salazar gave him much-needed strength, closing power, and most important, made him take things seriously. Farah embraced the lifestyle. Did Farah do those same things for the marathon? Was the marathon training too long and the racing too dull for him? Maybe, maybe not. But regardless, he will go down as the greatest racer ever, and I'm happy to have watched his electrifying Olympic doubles live!
Don’t give Farah credit for a 2:03:30 marathon. Could Farah have run 2:03:30 at age 27-28 (as you suggest) given that the WR at that time was 2:03:59? Obviously no chance whatsoever. Could Farah have run 2:03:30 in say, 2013, if he had super shoes and had spent several years training for that distance? It doesn’t even matter. It didn’t happen. When Farah made his marathon debut at age 31, he ran 2:08:21 for 8th place. When he ran his lifetime best he was 35, not 36–younger than Carlos Lopes when he won Olympic gold and then set the WR, younger than Bekele when he ran 2:01:41, younger than Kipchoge when he ran away with Tokyo Olympic gold.
The “12:50 low” you’re talking about was actually 12:57.9, already a significant improvement on having been stuck at 13:07-13:09 for the previous four years. Then he joined the NOP and became an unbeatable championship racer capable of 3:28 and as another poster stated, probably low-12:40s. Rupp has a whole lot of suspicion on his career, but what makes Farah even more obvious is his association with Jama Aden. Traveling back and forth between training in Portland with Salazar and the Horn of Africa with Aden is ridiculously dirty.
The problem is I don’t think Mo ever really liked running marathons. It’s a long grind, and at the world’s best you need to be able to surge with efficiency and speed. I think Mo refused to take the advice that he needed to run more efficiently and compact for the marathon (see Kipchoge), and Mo just kept that long, loping track stride and big arm movement every race.
End of the day, it's a shame people here yell 'drugs!' without stopping to understand the full story (and here I know I will lose some of you-- I only hope you treat Rupp with equal or more suspicion, given the T talk and hollowed out books). There is no question Mo was supremely talented. Canova tells the story of Mo managing 12:50 low off minimal training and recent sickness shortly before the coaching move to NOP. Salazar gave him much-needed strength, closing power, and most important, made him take things seriously. Farah embraced the lifestyle. Did Farah do those same things for the marathon? Was the marathon training too long and the racing too dull for him? Maybe, maybe not. But regardless, he will go down as the greatest racer ever, and I'm happy to have watched his electrifying Olympic doubles live!
Man, you really bought that story, didn't you? Remember how when Salazar acquired him, Farah could barely do a single push-up? Despite him having been a pro for several years at that point, not a single one of his prior professional coaches had noticed that he was weaker than an 8-year-old girl?
And how did he run "12:50 low [sic] off minimal training and recent sickness shortly before the coaching move...", when for a good 4 years before that he was stuck at 13:07 +/1 1 second? I thought the story was that he never ran fast before Salazar because he didn't take his training seriously - but now you're saying he did run fast even before he took his training seriously?
These were his yearly best times from age 23 to 26:
I think it's safe to say, based on those times in what would ordinarily be a runner's best years at the 5000m, Mo Farah was a 13:08 runner - good, but not "supremely talented".
No reason for people like Marc Scott, Emile Cairess, or Patrick Dever to travel for this. Prize money was £2k for first place. It's really a mass participation race with a few elites thrown in. The women's race tends to be more competitive.
Farah's hour record was actually pretty good. Basically a sub-60 HM, which he hasn't run that many times. It's obviously a soft World Record, but as a performance for him, it was good.
Agreed. Farah's marathon best is roughly on par with his 10km PR. Nothing to be ashamed of there.
Now, I do think he probably had another 18-20 seconds in him in the 10k (and I reckon most here would agree, given the sit and kick era he raced in). That puts his marathon potential at 2:03:30 ish. He was 36 when he ran his marathon PR; could he have run 90 seconds quicker 8 years earlier? I think so. We'll never know, unfortunately, but nonetheless, he has run exceptionally well in the marathon for a 3:28 1500m guy! (Still his best run + event, as weird as that might sound given his long distance success).
End of the day, it's a shame people here yell 'drugs!' without stopping to understand the full story (and here I know I will lose some of you-- I only hope you treat Rupp with equal or more suspicion, given the T talk and hollowed out books). There is no question Mo was supremely talented. Canova tells the story of Mo managing 12:50 low off minimal training and recent sickness shortly before the coaching move to NOP. Salazar gave him much-needed strength, closing power, and most important, made him take things seriously. Farah embraced the lifestyle. Did Farah do those same things for the marathon? Was the marathon training too long and the racing too dull for him? Maybe, maybe not. But regardless, he will go down as the greatest racer ever, and I'm happy to have watched his electrifying Olympic doubles live!
The “full story”?
Claiming not to hear the drug testers at the door after an hour of banging?
claiming not to know Jama Aden, yet having him as friends in his biography?
claiming to be in one place, yet actually being in sabadell with Aden…yes, the same place that a huge drug bust involving Aden was undertaken. The trainer claiming 120 preloaded syringes and 2 types of anabolic steroids were for him. 3:28 1500m before super shoes…dropping 4(?) seconds in the process…as a 10k guy. Complete transformation.
Farah was getting crushed by mottram in sessions…after long training periods in Kenya…yet this waning “embracing the lifestyle”?
I won’t even mention the fights in Haile’s hotel, beating up pensioners in the park, etc.
Shady guy at best. Far too many scenarios and lies to ignore. Good riddance to him in the sport.
End of the day, it's a shame people here yell 'drugs!' without stopping to understand the full story (and here I know I will lose some of you-- I only hope you treat Rupp with equal or more suspicion, given the T talk and hollowed out books). There is no question Mo was supremely talented. Canova tells the story of Mo managing 12:50 low off minimal training and recent sickness shortly before the coaching move to NOP. Salazar gave him much-needed strength, closing power, and most important, made him take things seriously. Farah embraced the lifestyle. Did Farah do those same things for the marathon? Was the marathon training too long and the racing too dull for him? Maybe, maybe not. But regardless, he will go down as the greatest racer ever, and I'm happy to have watched his electrifying Olympic doubles live!
Man, you really bought that story, didn't you? Remember how when Salazar acquired him, Farah could barely do a single push-up? Despite him having been a pro for several years at that point, not a single one of his prior professional coaches had noticed that he was weaker than an 8-year-old girl?
And how did he run "12:50 low [sic] off minimal training and recent sickness shortly before the coaching move...", when for a good 4 years before that he was stuck at 13:07 +/1 1 second? I thought the story was that he never ran fast before Salazar because he didn't take his training seriously - but now you're saying he did run fast even before he took his training seriously?
These were his yearly best times from age 23 to 26:
I think it's safe to say, based on those times in what would ordinarily be a runner's best years at the 5000m, Mo Farah was a 13:08 runner - good, but not "supremely talented".
Farah ran 12:57 in Zurich in 2010 before joining NOP. That was the race Canova was referring to. He didn't join NOP until 2011
And how did he run "12:50 low [sic] off minimal training and recent sickness shortly before the coaching move..."
I thought the story was that he never ran fast before Salazar because he didn't take his training seriously - but now you're saying he did run fast even before he took his training seriously?
You have your timeline and progression wrong.
Farah was fast and talented before NOP. He wasn't some nobody stuck at 13:07. He was a talented sub 13 guy w/ noted work ethic issues. You don't like him--that's fine, but don't twist my words.
End of the day, it's a shame people here yell 'drugs!' without stopping to understand the full story (and here I know I will lose some of you-- I only hope you treat Rupp with equal or more suspicion, given the T talk and hollowed out books). There is no question Mo was supremely talented. Canova tells the story of Mo managing 12:50 low off minimal training and recent sickness shortly before the coaching move to NOP. Salazar gave him much-needed strength, closing power, and most important, made him take things seriously. Farah embraced the lifestyle. Did Farah do those same things for the marathon? Was the marathon training too long and the racing too dull for him? Maybe, maybe not. But regardless, he will go down as the greatest racer ever, and I'm happy to have watched his electrifying Olympic doubles live!
Man, you really bought that story, didn't you? Remember how when Salazar acquired him, Farah could barely do a single push-up? Despite him having been a pro for several years at that point, not a single one of his prior professional coaches had noticed that he was weaker than an 8-year-old girl?
And how did he run "12:50 low [sic] off minimal training and recent sickness shortly before the coaching move...", when for a good 4 years before that he was stuck at 13:07 +/1 1 second? I thought the story was that he never ran fast before Salazar because he didn't take his training seriously - but now you're saying he did run fast even before he took his training seriously?
These were his yearly best times from age 23 to 26:
I think it's safe to say, based on those times in what would ordinarily be a runner's best years at the 5000m, Mo Farah was a 13:08 runner - good, but not "supremely talented".
Farah ran 3:33/12:57/27:28 before joining the NOP. He was widely known among UK coaches and ex-pros as very talented but unfocussed. No one foresaw the kind of dominance that he arrived at, but those times hinted at medal potential
Agreed. Farah's marathon best is roughly on par with his 10km PR. Nothing to be ashamed of there.
Now, I do think he probably had another 18-20 seconds in him in the 10k (and I reckon most here would agree, given the sit and kick era he raced in). That puts his marathon potential at 2:03:30 ish. He was 36 when he ran his marathon PR; could he have run 90 seconds quicker 8 years earlier? I think so. We'll never know, unfortunately, but nonetheless, he has run exceptionally well in the marathon for a 3:28 1500m guy! (Still his best run + event, as weird as that might sound given his long distance success).
End of the day, it's a shame people here yell 'drugs!' without stopping to understand the full story (and here I know I will lose some of you-- I only hope you treat Rupp with equal or more suspicion, given the T talk and hollowed out books). There is no question Mo was supremely talented. Canova tells the story of Mo managing 12:50 low off minimal training and recent sickness shortly before the coaching move to NOP. Salazar gave him much-needed strength, closing power, and most important, made him take things seriously. Farah embraced the lifestyle. Did Farah do those same things for the marathon? Was the marathon training too long and the racing too dull for him? Maybe, maybe not. But regardless, he will go down as the greatest racer ever, and I'm happy to have watched his electrifying Olympic doubles live!
Don’t give Farah credit for a 2:03:30 marathon. Could Farah have run 2:03:30 at age 27-28 (as you suggest) given that the WR at that time was 2:03:59? Obviously no chance whatsoever. Could Farah have run 2:03:30 in say, 2013, if he had super shoes and had spent several years training for that distance? It doesn’t even matter. It didn’t happen. When Farah made his marathon debut at age 31, he ran 2:08:21 for 8th place. When he ran his lifetime best he was 35, not 36–younger than Carlos Lopes when he won Olympic gold and then set the WR, younger than Bekele when he ran 2:01:41, younger than Kipchoge when he ran away with Tokyo Olympic gold.
The “12:50 low” you’re talking about was actually 12:57.9, already a significant improvement on having been stuck at 13:07-13:09 for the previous four years. Then he joined the NOP and became an unbeatable championship racer capable of 3:28 and as another poster stated, probably low-12:40s. Rupp has a whole lot of suspicion on his career, but what makes Farah even more obvious is his association with Jama Aden. Traveling back and forth between training in Portland with Salazar and the Horn of Africa with Aden is ridiculously dirty.
Yeah, I can't see how he runs a 2:03 at any point. He tried a couple of times, including a stupid attempt in London 2018 when it was 22 degrees, so it's not like we have no evidence on this question. He was close enough to 2:04 to make me think he could have hit that.
Even so, running 2:05/2:06 is enough to continue a career with occasional podium places. He just wasn't interested in that. He kept saying he liked the buzz of track running, which is weird, since 95% of track meets lack any sort of atmosphere. As I said, I think he was always chasing the kind of buzz he got from London 2012 and London 2017. Ultimately, chasing that dream cost him a place in the 2021 Olympics as he would have been auto-selected for the marathon