Thoughts on Colin’s 8:34.99 and Lex’s 8:35.72.

“Hot take”

They did great but there's no excuse to open a 3200 going with near sub 4 mile pace. The national record is easily there just don't fly to close to the sun.

Yeah definitely a great race to watch, especially with Lex and Colin switching off but pacing was really bad. Wonder what they could do with a pacer. Excited to see the splits but going in 60 was pretty foolish. Really wondering what happened to Leo and his 9:02

This one was very surprising to those who expected like 8:25-8:28’s. Or for the 2 mile record to go down. Lex in second? Leo doing worse than Dev? Those surprised me. Not really the time because when they were doing the workout they looked tired. And then the first 400m was absolute madness. That was 8:06 pace if continued. They should’ve split a 63-64 on that lap. I’d say Lex did really good however. Improved his 3200m by 8 seconds.

I wouldn't say easily. No excuses, but part of the problem is the insanely large fields in many of the races. There were several mishaps, runners falling. In the invitational 3200 the NP runners may have felt that they needed to zoom at the beginning to avoid collisions and getting swept up in the pack. But they were over exuberant that first 400. A race with 12-15 runners where a pacer goes no faster than 62.5-63 in the first 400 and then taking them through even its is what is needed to attempt a shot at the record.

Hard for the 2 mile to go down when the stop over 18 meters too soon.

To me, it looked like Leo was sprinting for a bit around 50m into the race trying to get into position. Given how hard it looked like he was running, and the fact that he ran that hard so early + the 60 first lap, he probably went just a bit too fast and it took too much energy.

LV's 8:29 had essentially perfect pacing, he got dragged on the back of a pro field that went through the mile in 4:14, and he had someone to draft off of late into the race. Like Sahlman, he ran sub-4 and was the XC national champ, so while 8:26ish is definitely within reason for Sahlman, it's gonna take way better conditions than a crowded track and a 60.8 first 400.

What were they supposed to do? The entire field was packed like sardines and all 4 NP kids were next to each other on the inside. If they get out slow, they get swallowed up by the pack and have to spend more energy fighting through the field to take the lead back.

They were like 28 the first 200 with most of that just positioning in the first 150 and then ran a 32.

I put this in the other thread, and it's weird to say as Newbury Park is so amazingly good, but it's hard not to look at this objectively and not think it was a bit of a disappointing night for them.

It's ok, they are showing they are human.

Leo Young ran 4:00 in the full mile in his last race. He'd already run 8:39 in his last 3200. I expected him to crush Lex Young today. Instead, Lex Young has the lead on Colin Sahlman on the last lap and Leo Young doesn't break 9:00?

On February 19th, Colin Sahlman ran 8:33.32 and beat Lex Young by 10 seconds. Tonight, he ran slower 8:34.99 and had to dig deep to beat him.

It was a good race for Lex Young given his recent form.

But if you had told me before the race that Lex will run 8:35, I would have said, "Ok Leo runs 8:29 and Colin runs 8:25." I mean Leo beat Lex by like 4-5 seconds in the mile last time out.

6 guys 9:02 or faster for Newbury Park.
Dev Doshi 9:02 in the seeded race.

Yep, the crazy large field dictated abnormal early tactics. In a more traditionally sized field they don't have to worry about falling or getting stuck in a pack. I'm not saying it's the only reason the couldn't get under 8:30 but it was part of the reason. Beyond Leo being gassed Colin did not look himself. He beat Lex on guts. Lex was the only one of them who was sharp.

Lex was sick leading into his 4:04, it's touched on briefly in the last L&L episode. Not sure how much that factored into that race, but it certainly wasn't his best performance.

So for comparison… at this point in time…

In 2016 and 2015, Hunter ran a 7:59 3K indoors in January on a flat track as a senior, and 8:42 2 Mile outdoors as a junior, respectively.

In 2011, Ches ran an 8:42 2 Mile as a sophomore indoors (chasing LV).

In 2011, Lukas was pulled along to an 8:29 2 Mile at the Pre Classic.

In 2008, German Fernandez ran 8:34 3200m 1.5 hours AFTER running 4:00 in a 1600m. In non-super shoes. At 17.5 years old. Two weeks later he ran 8:34 2 Mile, alone for the 2nd mile.

In 2000, as a junior, Ritz ran 8:41.1 in a race in Ohio in April. Won by ~:30. Non-super shoes.

In 1979, Jeff Nelson ran 8:36 2 Mile in obviously crappy shoes and track.

The point? Colin is up there with the greats, but hard to say THE greatest at this point. Though he does have some 800 wheels that most of the others didn’t have in high school.

IMO the Young twins are the most impressive part of NP this year. Juniors capable of 4:00/8:38 (maybe even a bit faster) for 1M & 2M is right there as the best junior class performances ever. Aaron is a very good junior with great speed, but many others have run faster as juniors over the years.

Question- On another thread someone said they’ve all been training seriously since middle school? That could change the future expectations curve a bit.

The 3x1200 @3200 (1min) and then 3x400m @1600 (3 min) was way too hard. That looked like an nearly impossible workout, and it was probably a harder effort than many of their races. Bronsan pushed way too hard.

Agreed. I don’t believe in running race pace for workouts. Leave it for the race. Build strength and speed all year around.

People had been hyping up this new batch of Newbury park kids as the future, but senior year Nico would have whooped on them tonight.

Meanwhile, back 1964, 17 yo Gerry Lindgren ran 8:40.0 for 2-miles on an 11 lap to the mike board track. The NCCA indoor conversion tables note the performance is equivalent to 8:32, a time that has yet to be bettered by a U.S. citizen in high school.

*lap to the mile

It retrospect German's double becomes even more impressive. It wasn't set up as fast race in great conditions. It was just the state meet and the weather is typically hot. He just went out and ran 4:00 and 8:34 by himself.