Official Russia vs Ukraine War Thread

Broken Record wrote:

Colin Bombo Harris wrote:

I just can't figure out his obsession with ending US foreign aid. The US has been providing foreign aid for over 200 hundred years and almost all of it has had bipartisan and public support.

I think somebody's record is stuck.

How des billions sent to Ukraine help average americans in america?

How does billions sent to Ukraine help average americans in america?

How does billions sent to Ukraine help average americans in america?

How does billionssent to Ukraine help average americans in america?

How does billions sent to Ukraine help average americans in america?

How does billions sent to Ukraine help average americans in america?

How does billions sent to Ukraine help average americans in america?

How does billions sent to Ukraine help average americans in america?

How does billions sent to Ukraine help average americans in america?

How does billions sent to Ukraine help average americans in america?

How does billions sent to Ukraine help average americans in america?

How does billions sent to Ukraine help average americans in america?

How does billions sent to Ukraine help average americans in america?

How does billions sent to Ukraine help average americans in america?

How does billions sent to Ukraine help average americans in america?

How does billions sent to Ukraine help average americans in america?

How does billions sent to Ukraine help average americans in america?

How does billions sent to Ukraine help average americans in america?

How does billions sent to Ukraine help average americans in america?

How does billions sent to Ukraine help average americans in america?

How doesbillions sent to Ukraine help average americans in america?

How does billions sent to Ukraine help average americans in america?

How does billions sent to Ukraine help average americans in america?

How does billions sent to Ukraine help average americans in america?

How does billions sent to Ukraine help average americans in america?

How does billions sent to Ukraine help average americans in america?

ceccione wrote:

SeattleSilver wrote:

The only relevant point is that the quoted comment was not in response to the question you pretend it was in response to. And that is true whether the comment is correct or false. It is true whether or not I provide examples to support my point. If I were to give an example showing an act of the Democrat controlled congress that was more progressive than past Congresses (such as the Respect for Marriage Act), would that mean anything with respect to whether aid to Ukraine helps average Americans? No, of course not.

I just went back and read the post where I wrote that comment (#13048). It was in response to your post in which you quoted an earlier post by me in which I stated my opinion regarding Ukraine aid that --"When enough taxpayers convince their congressional representatives to adjust that portion of the budget, or specifically to curtail aid to Ukraine, then it is likely to happen."

You disagreed, writing: "In theory, that would be a democracy. america is not a democracy. 1) representative democracies (what america is) are plutocracies. bought and paid for. 2) americans don;t care and, as we all know, they won't pull a France and hit the streets. they are too busy struggling to get time off to march. indentured servants.
It would take millions marching non-stop and workers to stop the economy dead in its tracks to force decreases in military spending to match other developed nations. So get started. put on your cow horns and beaver pelt vest and hit the streets."

I then replied with the quote you have frequently repeated, and additional comments about Americans having the leisure time to affect Congressional make up and policies if they really cared. Now, whether you agree with me or not is immaterial. What is material is that the post to which I responded did not ask the question whether the aid was good for average Americans, and my response did not attempt to answer that unasked question. It was just what it seems, an opinion regarding the make up of Congress.

There are some interesting points to discuss in the topics touched on in that post and our related posts. But I'm not interested in discussing the substance with you because, as I have shown, I don't believe you deal honestly.

I think you have stolen enough of my time pretending the quote was an answer to a question that wasn't in the post to which I replied.

The entire conversation was in the context of the Ukraine waste funding question. It's rhetorical. It just draws out unpatriotic idiots that support Ukrainians before Americans. If you had an answer to prove your point, you would have said it already. You are welcome to attempt an answer anytime. We know it doesn't exist so no need.

Healthcare / military spending getting more progressive FINANCIALLY because of congress' composition changing the past two decades didn't happen.

Some identity politics may have changed the past two decades (both progressive and regressive depending on which conservative right-wing party you support, the blue one or red one) but nothing financially has improved the past two decades for americans. Identity politics do not change based on military spending. Military spending just hurts americans financially.

Income inequality has gotten worse the past two decades. Interestingly, military spending has also gotten much bigger during that time. What a coincidence!!

2002 military spending $320B
2020 military spending $778B

The gap between the richest and the poorest U.S. households is now the largest it's been in the past 50 years

"The 290 million or so unlucky souls who make up the so-called bottom 90 percent, meanwhile, saw just 13 percent of the nation’s wealth gains between 2006 and 2018, not much over half of what went to the top .01 percent. Our bottom 50 percent actually lost wealth over that 2006-2018 period. The end-result of all this number crunching: Of that $13.871-trillion increase in inflation- and population-adjusted household wealth, $12.078 trillion went to the nation’s wealthiest 10 percent, leaving just $1.793 trillion to the bottom 90 percent."

Link:inequality.org/great-divide/inequality...

ceccione wrote:

No, most americans don't support Ukraine or these fake wars if you make them choose between keeping their money or sending to (insert fake war). You missed that part.

Poll: would you like $200 - 300 cash in hand every month or would you like to give that cash to Ukrainians?

How does billions sent to Ukraine help average americans in america?

answers thus far:

~ it helps top shareholders of MIC companies (from GoodGollyMissLolly, now downgraded to obscurity using multiple usernames)

~ buying new weapons to replace donated ones saves average americans by avoiding storage costs for donated weapons (someone actually said this)

~ millions of americans live in Ukraine and need protecting

~ shifting waste from one failed military venture to another will reduce the defense budget (someone actually said this), as historically has never happened

~ "Russia has been a non-factor in american military spending for 30 years" Hence NATO expansion, to oppose Russia with our military spending, and our NATO military bases. Additionally, starting in 2022, we now send billions MORE to fight Russia, because they are a non-factor in our military spending. (from GoodGollyMissLolly, now downgraded to obscurity using
multiple usernames)

~ “There have been significant changes in the makeup of Congress over the past two decades. The results are more progressive (their term, not mine)…” (from SeattleSilver)

2002 military spending $320B
2020 military spending $778B

Yemen, 02-present
Iraq 2 (based on lies)
Iran, 05-present
Somalia, 06-07
Honduras, 09
Libya, 11
Syria, 11-present
Ukraine, 2014-present
Brazil, 16
Bolivia, 19
Afghanistan 01 - 21

~ americans will receive enormous intangible benefits from the billions sent to Ukraine, even if they can’t experience them (from Colin Bombo Harris) Ah yes, benefits that can't be measured, seen, or experienced

~ by creating peace and prosperity (america has killed 20 – 30 million since WWII, mostly civilians) that allows global trade (creating americas current record setting income inequality), travel, open societies (societies are worse off after america interferes with them), cheap goods (thank you China, not american workers), markets for US companies (benefitting rich americans, see income inequality) and therefore jobs (low paying jobs, stagnant Real Wages), preventing a power vacuum and subsequent power struggle (countries become lawless power vacuums after we finish. They are more stable before we terrorize
them). (from agip)

Monkeys Skyping wrote:

Mel--Rnr wrote:

Why the pages and pages about health care? It has nothing to do with US support for Ukraine. We don't have single payer universal healthcare, because the American electorate does not want it. It's been like that looooong before Russia invaded Ukraine. If we stopped giving aid to Ukraine, well, we still won't have universal healthcare.

Cecci/Lolly is just engaging in his own personal propaganda campaign, and using totally irrelevant arguments to do it.

Propaganda 101: Find a wedge and keep hammering on it.

While it doesn't belong in this thread, US healthcare is kind of an interesting pick because most would agree that it's broken and ought to be fixed. There's broad disagreement on how to do that. I don't know if the old Obama era threads leading up to the ACA still exist, but my memory was a lot of substantial commentary at the time and a lot less trollish and repetitive BS.

ceccione wrote:

agip wrote:

Ceccione is acting like the US is a healthcare disaster. It isn't. 67% of Americans are happy with their healthcare and that number is at or near historical highs. You can't get 67% of Americans to agree the sky is blue so that's a big number.

Why are Americans dying at younger ages? Covid, obesity, guns. These are not really a result of bad healthcare.

Link:news.gallup.com/poll/327686/americans-...

How much more satisfied would they be if they saved a bunch more money? Uh huh.

Same for better health outcomes. They'd be a lot more satisfied there too.

Stop settling for carp healthcare that is the most expensive in the world for the worst outcomes.

Worst healthcare has been america's fabric for many decades. It's the worst healthcare in the world. Gonna take more than a brief drop in life expectancy from covid to remedy the worst health care in the world.

Cost is the problem. Always has been.

Link:www.healthsystemtracker.org/chart-coll...

ceccione wrote:

agip wrote:

Ceccione is acting like the US is a healthcare disaster. It isn't. 67% of Americans are happy with their healthcare and that number is at or near historical highs. You can't get 67% of Americans to agree the sky is blue so that's a big number.

Why are Americans dying at younger ages? Covid, obesity, guns. These are not really a result of bad healthcare.

Link:news.gallup.com/poll/327686/americans-...

Here's your updated Gallup poll from a week ago:

"Poll results showed that Americans were more than twice as likely to delay treatment in their family for a serious illness rather than for a less serious condition."

Do you know who delays medical treatment in the developed world? No one.

American satisfaction with the cost of health care in the U.S. has remained steady for over the past 20 years, with only 24 percent satisfied and 76 percent dissatisfied.Dissatisfaction With Costs Causing Americans to Delay Medical Care.

Link:thevaccinereaction.org/2023/02/gallup-...