16th qualifying spot for 3000m is currently 7:46.17. Hocker would not have been top 16.

It's 7:45.80 when you add in the 2 Stanford guys from tonight. Oregon has some guys racing it at BU tomorrow going after times

Wonder what it would be w/o cheat shoes.

Wonder what it would be with old spikes and old coaching philosophies

Irrelevant

Are you including Young’s 7:59 conversion?

Hocker ran 7:39 earlier this year. This was a championship race

OP was comparing Hocker's and Teare's NCAA performances last year to what qualifies for NCAAs this year.

First let’s answer what it would be without cheat shoes.

This is a stupid comparison since a lot of distance based schools did not run indoor last year in favor of XC

No, we should first answer what it would be on unbanked 200 yard dirt tracks. And add time for every major shoe and track innovation over the last 50 years. Then we can properly decompose the contributions to times over the last 50 years.

ANd who knows what they would have run last year? Against different competition, they may well have run faster times.

Idiotic thread

Still comparing TTs for qualifying to Champ races/scenarios. Kinda short sighted.

The list is insane but doesn't necessarily mean the field is more competitive. Seems like racing opportunities are back to normal levels and everyone has magic shoes.

We can only answer your question after we answer what it would be without cheat shoes.

in the mean time here is a fun stat: after Clarke ran 27:39 in the 10,000 in ‘65 on a cinder track, it took until ‘72 (years after synthetic tracks were developed) for Viren to break the record by…one…second. Despite running on both cinder and synthetic, Clarke never ran faster than he did on cinder. This same progression goes for both the 5,000 and mile WRs. There has never been a technological advantage in the past similar to what we’re seeing now with cheat shoes. Do your research - look it up. Might as well legalize epo because it’s the same advantage.

Ummm. You act as though coaching philosophies have changed much in 3 years.

Ah, the ol’ “philosophies have changed” excuse. Funny how the “philosophies” coincide exactly with the release of cheat shoes. Please explain what “philosophies” have changed over the last 3 years. Does one of them include “and by all means, make sure to wear dragonfly’s as they are sure to get you 30 seconds in a 10k”? Must at least have this one because everyone is wearing them.

It's crazy to think that Adam Goucher prevailed by a whisker over Bernard Lagat at NCAA indoors in 1998-ish with an NCAA indoor record of 7:46 low. Now that doesn't get you to nattys.

If I read some of the comments here, it’s because people did not care about running fast before 2019. it’s a new thing it seems.

For example 100% of the top 10 DMR times have occurred since 2020 (9 of them since 2021)

Teams simply didn’t care before that I guess.

Funny how runners only started caring about running fast after cheat shoes were introduced. Try telling Lagat, Rupp, Kennedy, Goucher, Williams, etc. that they didn’t run 12:53 indoors because, get this, they didn’t care about running fast. Lol!

Re-reading your comment I noticed I misread it. Apologies.

It is a fact that many top guys didn't prioritize indoor Time Trials in the past as much as they do now. The shoes help (I believe around 1 second per kilometer ~ and maybe slightly more the longer the race), but having 30 high-quality indoor tracks in the US alone and the new culture of chasing indoor records/qualifying marks on them has spread to most of the top US athletes.