According to Rojo and others, super spikes are worth about 4 seconds a mile.
By my math that means Daniel Komen's 3k (which was run at about 3:56 mile pace), would be run at near 3:52 pace, giving Daniel Komen in modern day super spikes a staggering 3k WR time of 7:12.
EL G, doped to the gills in with EPO, and wearing the incredible super spikes, strolls in the mile in an incredible time of 3:39.
Why I would give to mix the EPO era with super spikes.
This is the easiest way to expose how ridiculous the super spike rhetoric has gotten. The notion of Komen running 7:12 is just comical, and that's not even including Monaco and wavelight. He'd be comfortably under 7:10 if half the clowns on this site are to be believed.
exactly. komen and el g crush the super spikes argument. Look, I get they improve performance a bit (a second here or there), but 3-4 secs a mile? NONSENSE.
whats happening right now, and no one will admit it, is we are under a NEW doping era. There are drugs on the market that are powerful and undetectable. It's not everyone gaining 3-4 seconds a mile due to super spikes.
exactly. komen and el g crush the super spikes argument. Look, I get they improve performance a bit (a second here or there), but 3-4 secs a mile? NONSENSE.
whats happening right now, and no one will admit it, is we are under a NEW doping era. There are drugs on the market that are powerful and undetectable. It's not everyone gaining 3-4 seconds a mile due to super spik*es.
exactly. komen and el g crush the super spikes argument. Look, I get they improve performance a bit (a second here or there), but 3-4 secs a mile? NONSENSE.
whats happening right now, and no one will admit it, is we are under a NEW doping era. There are drugs on the market that are powerful and undetectable. It's not everyone gaining 3-4 seconds a mile due to super spikes.
Is this how you would explain the dramatic drop in performances across the board? From College to HS times have dropped significantly over the past 2-3 years or so. Maybe it's the case but I find it hard to believe new doping has made it's way down to the lower levels at the rate it would take for the massive level of improvement we are seeing.
This is the easiest way to expose how ridiculous the super spike rhetoric has gotten. The notion of Komen running 7:12 is just comical, and that's not even including Monaco and wavelight. He'd be comfortably under 7:10 if half the clowns on this site are to be believed.
Why is this? Your father or grandfather probably expected Bannister to physically explode or his heart to give up while attempting to run the 'clearly impossible' sub 4 minute mile.
It's been over a quarter of a century since Komen's WR. A quarter of a century before he ran it, the WR was 7:39. Komen took 4 1/2 seconds off EPO juiced Morcelli's WR set just 2 years before. He ran 9 seconds faster than Aouita's WR set just 7 years previously, and which was likely the last non EPO WR, although Aouita was almost certainly blood doped and roided to the max.
Of course Komen would have ran a lot faster in super shoes and modern tracks. It's plausible he could have ran 7:12, and it's plausible El G would have ran close to 3:20 for the 1500m. That doesn't show how stupid super shoes logic is, it shows how insane the full throttle EPO era was.
More sensible is to look at guys like Coe and Cram. They ran 3:29 for 1500 and likely would have ran 3:25 today. Jakob could very well run 3:26 this year and was certainly in 3:27 form last year. So that seems about right - that Coe and Cram were about a second or two quicker than the best today are (currently).
Or look at it one other way. If there had been no testing for EPO worldwide for 10 years, zero random testing in East Africa for the last 10 years, and Gentleman Tim had been epo maxxing since he was a teen, with hgh and roids too, what might he have run at Monaco in the last 3 or 4 years? Probably something like 3:22
@ Coevett As stated in the other youtube video, the Britannic school was among the schools that wanted to control worldwide the Middle distances. Your big disappointment is as great as the disappointment of S. Coe the day (in 1985) where he saw the WR fleeing from his hands (within his eyes) in a confrontation with S. Cram. It's unlikely there will be another British come back in the worldwide level and EPO tests will not help.
super spikes are more likely to help inefficient runners than those at the highest level. i think they are helping hs and college kids. but the highest level pros are not getting much out of them. they have already maximized everything the shoes can give them.
This is the easiest way to expose how ridiculous the super spike rhetoric has gotten. The notion of Komen running 7:12 is just comical, and that's not even including Monaco and wavelight. He'd be comfortably under 7:10 if half the clowns on this site are to be believed.
If "super spikes" were real, some 7:27 guy would already have erased Komen's record.
Most people including runners don't really understand how the gait cycle works and why a bouncy shoe shouldn't theoretically improve it.
People point to new records, but it's mostly outliers like Cheptegei or at newly-popular, formerly soft distances like HM. There's still only two 2:01 marathons ever. Men's mile, 1500, 3000, 2 mile, all quite safe. Steeple? When was the last sub 8 even? (looked it up, El Bakkali 2018 is the only one since 2016!)
This argues strongly against an advantage available to everyone; that should have effect everywhere.
This is the easiest way to expose how ridiculous the super spike rhetoric has gotten. The notion of Komen running 7:12 is just comical, and that's not even including Monaco and wavelight. He'd be comfortably under 7:10 if half the clowns on this site are to be believed.
If "super spikes" were real, some 7:27 guy would already have erased Komen's record.
Most people including runners don't really understand how the gait cycle works and why a bouncy shoe shouldn't theoretically improve it.
People point to new records, but it's mostly outliers like Cheptegei or at newly-popular, formerly soft distances like HM. There's still only two 2:01 marathons ever. Men's mile, 1500, 3000, 2 mile, all quite safe. Steeple? When was the last sub 8 even? (looked it up, El Bakkali 2018 is the only one since 2016!)
This argues strongly against an advantage available to everyone; that should have effect everywhere.
If you ran at all, or had friends who did, you would see their PRs dropping by huge chunks, especially from 10k up in the last 3 or 4 years.
There's no chance it's worth that much time but obviously super doped up runners would do better than today's grey zone living athletes.
Super spikes improve running economy more in the 2.5-3.5% range. That's not a 1:1 in performance boost. You also have to be a high responder. Elites gain less than amateurs. You probably get 1-3s/mile. So 2-5s over the course of a 3k.
You still have to be fit, get good weather, pace right, etc.
There's no chance it's worth that much time but obviously super doped up runners would do better than today's grey zone living athletes.
Super spikes improve running economy more in the 2.5-3.5% range. That's not a 1:1 in performance boost. You also have to be a high responder. Elites gain less than amateurs. You probably get 1-3s/mile. So 2-5s over the course of a 3k.
You still have to be fit, get good weather, pace right, etc.
This guy gets it. 0-3s on a mile (you get more the slower you are, world class runners get 1-1,5s at most). And I think 2-5s in a 3k is fair. Komen is hard to say, but sub 7:20 for sure.
This is the easiest way to expose how ridiculous the super spike rhetoric has gotten. The notion of Komen running 7:12 is just comical, and that's not even including Monaco and wavelight. He'd be comfortably under 7:10 if half the clowns on this site are to be believed.
Where’s Calculo/Ventolin when we finally need him?
Komen could have gone 7:08 for 3k with wavelight and super spikes which equates to 57.0X per lap.
You all should remember that Komen was not good at sudden shifts in pace. This was evident with his races against El G and Haile. He was more of a diesel that could just grind out 58-59 second laps consistently and look smooth doing it. His form looked the same running 7:20 as running 13:00 as running 3:46. I don't think he went 100% into the well in any of those races but just did the pace that was prescribed by the initial pacers and his agent.
With his incredible economical form, you set the wavelight to 57.0 per lap that guy could have become a metronome and gotten the record close to 7:08. No doubt in my mind. He was THAT special of a runner. Once in a generation.
Why is this? Your father or grandfather probably expected Bannister to physically explode or his heart to give up while attempting to run the 'clearly impossible' sub 4 minute mile.
It's been over a quarter of a century since Komen's WR. A quarter of a century before he ran it, the WR was 7:39. Komen took 4 1/2 seconds off EPO juiced Morcelli's WR set just 2 years before. He ran 9 seconds faster than Aouita's WR set just 7 years previously, and which was likely the last non EPO WR, although Aouita was almost certainly blood doped and roided to the max.
Of course Komen would have ran a lot faster in super shoes and modern tracks. It's plausible he could have ran 7:12, and it's plausible El G would have ran close to 3:20 for the 1500m. That doesn't show how stupid super shoes logic is, it shows how insane the full throttle EPO era was.
More sensible is to look at guys like Coe and Cram. They ran 3:29 for 1500 and likely would have ran 3:25 today. Jakob could very well run 3:26 this year and was certainly in 3:27 form last year. So that seems about right - that Coe and Cram were about a second or two quicker than the best today are (currently).
Or look at it one other way. If there had been no testing for EPO worldwide for 10 years, zero random testing in East Africa for the last 10 years, and Gentleman Tim had been epo maxxing since he was a teen, with hgh and roids too, what might he have run at Monaco in the last 3 or 4 years? Probably something like 3:22
El G likely 3:38 on super spikes and current tracks, probably even faster indoor bouncy track. Don’t be naive doping still happening and will be around for ever.
If you ran at all, or had friends who did, you would see their PRs dropping by huge chunks, especially from 10k up in the last 3 or 4 years.
Yes! The average hobby jogger
A) tends to get better with 3 or 4 years' training B) improves significantly compared to competitive runners near their peak C) especially at long distances with the most room for improvement
whats happening right now, and no one will admit it, is we are under a NEW doping era. There are drugs on the market that are powerful and undetectable. It's not everyone gaining 3-4 seconds a mile due to super spikes.
I hate to be cynical, but I have to agree. How many times do we need to see the pattern before we recognize it?
Records start falling. Everyone starts speculating why. "Is it the shoes? The altitude tents? The track? The wave-light? New training technique? Are they just genetic freaks?"
That's until they find out a way to test for whatever new PED has been invented and can't be detected, yet.