How about Matthew Boling? When he moves up to the mile, he'll destroy all the aforementioned runners.
How about Matthew Boling? When he moves up to the mile, he'll destroy all the aforementioned runners.
So 4 in the last 100 years as well? Clearly pretty uncommon.
zxcvzcxv wrote:
Webb had just completed a hero workout to prepare him for his big goal, breaking Ryun's record in the spring, shortly before Footlocker, which is part of the reason he couldn't keep up with Ritz. Why he was doing that kind of incredible workout just before Footlocker, I have no idea, but the truth is that he set a McAlpine course record for the South region that year and then went on to win the Great Lakes xc regional (or whatever one Michigan runs in) as a freshman.
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Webb was 2nd at Great Lakes behind Boaz the NCAA champ that year.
Great to finally see Parker included in these conversations.
Funny how circumstances stop certain athletes from recieving the hype that others do. Parker missed out on a lot of exposure in HS becuase of COVID.
No NXN his senior year, limited sea-level racing opportunities. But he managed to run a 4:06 1600m at 5200 ft (4:00 per NCAA altitude conversion) completely solo within a few weeks of a 14:06 in Texas, also solo. I'm a big fan of the Newbury Park boys, but look at all the advantages they've had that Parker hasn't, both in training partners, as well as access to high profile races.
But perhaps the biggest reason to believe in his upside is that physically he is a late bloomer. I remember watching him run a 4:19 1600 in Colorado as a sophomore and thinking that he looked like a middle schooler. When analyzing preps we tend to fall into this trap of assuming all HS seniors are built the same. But when you compare a HS Wolfe to, say, a Drew Hunter, it's obvious that they are on different planet developmentally.
I'm not surprised to see Parker having yet another season of massive breakthroughs, and I fully expect that we'll see that arc of improvement for another 2-3 years.
insightlessness wrote:
zxcvzcxv wrote:
Webb had just completed a hero workout to prepare him for his big goal, breaking Ryun's record in the spring, shortly before Footlocker, which is part of the reason he couldn't keep up with Ritz. Why he was doing that kind of incredible workout just before Footlocker, I have no idea, but the truth is that he set a McAlpine course record for the South region that year and then went on to win the Great Lakes xc regional (or whatever one Michigan runs in) as a freshman.
.
Webb was 2nd at Great Lakes behind Boaz the NCAA champ that year.
Webb is from Virginia.
Lenny Leonard wrote:
insightlessness wrote:
Webb was 2nd at Great Lakes behind Boaz the NCAA champ that year.
Webb is from Virginia.
Yes, and he ran for the University of Michigan, which competed in the Great Lakes NCAA XC Regional.
You have "contributed" to this thread twice. Once to point out a small grammar error, and a second time to make an irrelevant point based on your own misinterpretation of a prior post. You must be a real joy to talk to.
On the topic at hand, I hope Brosnan sticks around at NP for a decent amount of time so we can see if there are any non-Youngs or non-Sahlmans who produce similarly.
I haven't been reading this thread recently but have added in Kessler and Nico to the title as they are still teens as well.
Did they not have an 8:44 kid and 8:56 (Probably faster this year) kid in the last 3 years, with probably more on the way this year? Weird take. So if you remove 5 of the fastest kids in history they only have two other sub 9 kids in a 3 year stretch.
runningfan87 wrote:
Did they not have an 8:44 kid and 8:56 (Probably faster this year) kid in the last 3 years, with probably more on the way this year? Weird take. So if you remove 5 of the fastest kids in history they only have two other sub 9 kids in a 3 year stretch.
It wasn't a "take," and I wasn't suggesting that Brosnan is anything other than a great coach. Sorry if your hypersensitivity or need to argue led you to a different interpretation..
I'm sure Brosnan will regularly, or at least semi-regularly, produce sub-9 or sub-8:50 kids. But, there is a big difference between sub-9/8:50 high schoolers and high school kids who break or threaten the 8:00 barrier for 3k. He's had 5 who are arguably capable of doing so, coming from two families. I'm just curious if he's found a training formula and mental approach that will produce other potential record breakers.
more credit wrote:
runningfan87 wrote:
Going with Colin Sahlman. How many kids have gone sub 4 and were the best XC runner in the country that same year? Hunter, Fisher, and him?
Young twins are going to be incredible as well, I could see them just obliterating the record books next year.
And LV. That’s 4 on the last 10 -11 years, so it’s not uncommon at all.
Going back to early 2000s, didn’t AJ Acosta go 4:02 and win Footlocker that prior fall? I assume his 4:02 was the top time in the nation that year (?).
Ches ran 4:02.2 indoors his senior year after winning Footlocker. That was likely the top time that year.
Calirunfun79 wrote:
Not to diss yet another fun topic related to the NB boys, but what I think often gets lost/missed in all the hoopla and discussion of each of their stars is the sheer impossibility of their collective and simultaneous brilliance.
For all the mounting track achievements Colin, Leo, Lex, and Aaron are compiling, none thus far have produced what could be described as transformative racing outcomes on the oval; the kind that electrify aficionados while abruptly elevating the possibilities of what can actually be achieved on the track (think Ryun, Lindgren, Webb, Fernandez, Verzbicas, Kessler, et al).
For now, each of the four Newbury stars could be described so far as generational talents; the kind that might individually come along during a given 4-year high school cycle, or even a 10+ year stretch, depending on the era. Individual giants that arguably vie for historical relevancy with the likes of a Liquori, or Pre, Virgin, Hulst, Nelson, Ritzenhein, Rupp, Solinsky, Fisher, Hunter, Nico Young, etc. etc.
What truly makes Newbury's 'Big 4' so compelling is that the fact that -yes- here we have the nucleus of indisputably the greatest U.S. prep cross-country team in high school history, but even more so, we have four generational talents all running together on ONE team at the SAME time (with any of the four having the potential to break through this season or next with a transformative track performance; one so stellar it decisively raises the bar for what is realistically possible for the entire sport). The equivalent of four Liquoris, Virgins, Hulsts, Nelsons, et al., on the same team at the same time, with still more room to grow into four Lindgrens, Fernandez's, etc. Wow.
(Yes, the Ingebrigtsen brothers are undeniably much more collectively and individually accomplished than the Newbury 4-along with Nico-are and perhaps ever will be, but they did not compete together on one prep team)
Even for grizzled, rather jaded old fans of the sport, it really strains the mind to grasp what Newbury has actualized these last couple of years. We are witnessing the two greatest sets of high school racing brothers in U.S. history, competing together at the very same time on the very same team. One set that could finish their high school careers (Colin and Aaron) both racing well under 4:00 and at least 8:35 in the full 2-mile; the other (Leo and Lex) both blazing close to or under 8:30 2-miles and 13:30-35 5000s. To compound the sheer unlikelihood of this ever happening in any part of the theoretical multiverse, all four have been relatively healthy their prep careers (knock on wood); all are coached by a passionate individual who seems exceptionally well-suited to nurture and support their individual developments; they live and train in an area, environment, and state ideally suited to promote their development year-round; all four had the inspirational and practical advantage of developing under an older teammate/brother in Nico who was both team-oriented, hard-working, and oh, also won the National Nike-Cross Championship; all four seem relatively level-headed and supportive of each other's success.
What we have here-as others have noted-is the winning of the All-Galaxy Powerball prize by Sean Brosnan in terms of being gifted with raw talent to coach. And he has-whatever your personal feelings for the fellow-done a marvelous job of doing whatever he can to develop, refine, and inspire that talent. To have all this come together in one place within one moment in time...it strains credulity. Throw in a surrounding cast of state and/or national age-group talent into the mix; the Aschbrenners, Applefords, Goldsteins, Martinez's, etc., and it just makes the phenomenon even more incredible. Collectively, the Newbury 'Big 4' are in the process -I'd argue- of becoming more than generational or even transformative; they are simply sui generis in U.S. annals. Unique. One of a historical kind.
I totally agree. We may never see this again, 4 of the all time greats running at the same time and on the same team. Three are Juniors. What will they do next year.
This not about one runner being better, this is about 4 HIgh Schoolers from the same team and the same time running times better than all time high school greats have run. No high school team ever has had this at the same time, none.
So to the but, but, but people you have no argument, none .
He was also Big Ten xc champ.
Lenny Leonard wrote:
When I read between the lines in what Sean Brosnan has said in interviews, he seems to think Aaron Sahlman has the most speed of the bunch and perhaps the most untapped potential. That's my vote.
As fast as Colin has run, his form just looks so wackadoo that I am hesitant to project him too much beyond where he is. Of course, I was wrong about Grant Fisher, whose stride and upper body always seem uneconomical to my eyes.
I wouldn't worry about the form. Look at Nico Young in High School, his form was horrible as well. Now look at him, it's pretty darn good. The same thing will happen with Colin.
sevenmilesperweek wrote:
Lenny Leonard wrote:
When I read between the lines in what Sean Brosnan has said in interviews, he seems to think Aaron Sahlman has the most speed of the bunch and perhaps the most untapped potential. That's my vote.
As fast as Colin has run, his form just looks so wackadoo that I am hesitant to project him too much beyond where he is. Of course, I was wrong about Grant Fisher, whose stride and upper body always seem uneconomical to my eyes.
I wouldn't worry about the form. Look at Nico Young in High School, his form was horrible as well. Now look at him, it's pretty darn good. The same thing will happen with Colin.
Both of them have amazing foot strike and as they get older and stronger the upper body thing goes away. It's normal when your tank is amazing on a HS body.
Kessler. Even based on a 2 year running history.
It's Kessler to me. Sahlman super impressive and I think mile marks are better because we are more competitive in that distance than 3K (where East African teens can run 7:30s and faster).
@Rojo did think this was a strange comment:
"Those are the stats, but please go watch Colin Sahlman’s race if you haven’t done so. I didn’t see it live or before I created the poll, but if you watch it, it’s hard to not see the great tactics and amazing final 200 and think, “This kid is special.” The way the race was run – it reminded me very much of Alan Webb‘s 3:53 mile at Pre."
- Odd to link great tactics with Alan Webb, who is one of the most maddening tacticians we've seen. I also don't think the high schooler in pro race setups are challenging at all tactically. With no pressure and the splits they need to run done as part of the natural race flow, everyone from Hunter to Webb to Kessler runs towards the back early, comes through in 2:59-3:02 picking off stragglers, and then hammers the last 400. Hobbs went faster through 1200 obviously. Would get much more of a tactical sense if they had to lead or mix it up up front in a tight pack. That all being said, great close by Sahlman — I just don't take away much tactically he's just in excellent shape right now.
C Sahlman
He has Ryan Hall talent. However he has better high school coaching than Ryan did. With that said I see him moving to the thon quite nicely.
Tewalt will be the best of the group but he didn't make the title.
This thread needs to acknowledge Sumner. He is the future of the American 800m
Webb, Ritz, and Hall were “The Big 3.”
This group should be called “The Top 7.”