What could I run from this Vo2 max workout?

Sounds like 4:40 is a good estimate to start.

Not really a workout you can predict a ton off of. 16:00 of volume with full rest. Basically 8 x 600m w./ slow 400 jog. Not exactly 5k specific but you've already run 16:25 so I would say you're in that kind of shape. The mile doesn't match your 400/800/5k. You can definitely run faster for the 1600 & 3200. Your solo 3200 was pretty close to your 5k. I think sub-4:40 is a good goal. With the 400/800 speed, you're not limited in what you can train for there. You should be able to work towards sub-4:30 with good training.

doing the recovery at 2' at 8:30/M jog is not a fartlek. that's intervals with jog between.

Fartlek has floats between efforts and if you can run those paces, 8:30/M isn't a float for you. You may aswell have just done 600m reps on a track

It depends on how much endurance you have but based off of your 16:25 id say you have a good bit, but if you run 56 you’ll probably be 4:42-4:45 and 2:07-2:09 depending on the type of runner you are. That workout dosent really say much about the times you can run tho.

speed? wrote:

Hi Letsrun,

Did a workout of a fartlek 8 x (2 on 2 off) with the on at around 5:10-5:15 pace (off around 8:30 if that matters).

7-8/10 effort, difficult, but could still do an easy 7:30 pace jog for a couple of miles after as a cooldown.

What could I run from this workout in the 1600 and 3200 right now and what are your predictions for in the season once speed workouts are added in.

PRs 16:25, 10:15 (solo tt), 4:51, 2:09, 56.

Best of luck

So you basically did 8x600 or a touch more at 5:10-5:15 pace w/ 2' very easy jog recovery.

Seems like this is somewhere in-between your 5k and 3200 pace at the moment is my guess. I would guess 10:15 for 3200 is about where you are at the moment. You should be able to run a faster 1600 of that 3200 time so maybe 4:40-4:45?

For what it is worth I ran 8x600 w/ 60s jog recovery at about 8' pace then a fast 200 at the end and that was pretty much my 3k pace on the dot 10 days later. That is what is informing my comment above given you had 2x the rest but also ran a couple seconds longer.

I just did a very similar workout, 10 reps of the same thing, going from 5:05 pace to 4:45 pace, and I reckon I’m in about 4:15 mile shape rn. I have about 50 second 400m speed though so that may make a difference.

Given your workout and PRs I think sub 10:00 and 4:40 would be good immediate goals. No reason not to go for sub 4:30 and 9:45 by the end of outdoors.

Take your strides more seriously and get that 400m down more. 4:30~ will feel a lot more relaxed even if you can get that 400m down to 53/54, and then you’ll have a better shot at breaking 2:00 as well.

Another workout to see if it would change anyone's predictions:

6x400 m with 3 min jog recovery.

68, 70, 69, 68 68, 69.

Done on a rolled-out section of road with a big hill for about 150 meters of the rep.

sorrynotsorry wrote:

doing the recovery at 2' at 8:30/M jog is not a fartlek. that's intervals with jog between.

Fartlek has floats between efforts and if you can run those paces, 8:30/M isn't a float for you. You may aswell have just done 600m reps on a track

Fartlek doesn't have floats between. Fartlek is totally by feel. Can be walking or jogging or easy runs or fast runs mixed just by feel.

SorrySorry wrote:

sorrynotsorry wrote:

doing the recovery at 2' at 8:30/M jog is not a fartlek. that's intervals with jog between.

Fartlek has floats between efforts and if you can run those paces, 8:30/M isn't a float for you. You may aswell have just done 600m reps on a track

Fartlek doesn't have floats between. Fartlek is totally by feel. Can be walking or jogging or easy runs or fast runs mixed just by feel.

I hate arguments like this, people define fartlek differently and I don’t understand arguing over the definition. Some people call anything on the track “speed work” while others say anything slower than 400m pace can’t be considered speed work. Both are correct in their own training philosophy. I could go on a run where I have to clap my hands 20 times every time I see a dog and call it a fartlek. Someone else could call it a weirdo running around half naked applauding dogs. Both of us are right.

To the OP. Your workout once again shows 4:40 is probably your over under for the mile right now, which is a good place to be at the beginning of indoors. Try to get to the point where you can either do 10-12 of those reps in a workout, or try to work the pace to 67-65s with the same rest. Do this by speeding up the last rep next workout, the last two reps the next one… 400s are going to be the best way to gauge your mile fitness for the most part.

SorrySorry wrote:

sorrynotsorry wrote:

doing the recovery at 2' at 8:30/M jog is not a fartlek. that's intervals with jog between.

Fartlek has floats between efforts and if you can run those paces, 8:30/M isn't a float for you. You may aswell have just done 600m reps on a track

Fartlek doesn't have floats between. Fartlek is totally by feel. Can be walking or jogging or easy runs or fast runs mixed just by feel.

Sounds like 2 minutes at 8:30 is what what he felt like doing, so it's still fartlek.

Again, not really a predictor workout. Not that much volume & a lot of rest. Knowing your 400/800 PBs, I would expect you to do 6 x 400 with 3:00 rest a lot faster.

Does this show sub-4:40 mile capability? Who knows. It wasn't flat so we know you can handle faster times for this kind of a session. Still unclear what you're training for. Sub-4:40 & sub-10:00 are good goals since they wold get closer to your shorter PBs. Those times are also doable with your current 5k. If you're looking to make 800 gains then the two workouts you shared tell us very little.

I would think about volume/rest. In both sessions you took a lot of rest compared to the volume of the workout. The first workout is a 5k session but 8 x 600m (or 2:00) is going to be a lot more accurate with 200m (1:00) rest. 6 x 400m doesn't have the volume to predict your mile/3k/5k. For a mile -- 8-10 x 400 (1:00-1:30 rest). For a 3k 8-12 x 400 (1:00 rest). For a 5k 12-16 x 400 (1:00 rest). Rest is the same but those sessions are doable because you're slowing down your target splits, while adding on some volume. Structuring workouts like that will help you make gains & accurately assess your fitness.

speed? wrote:

Another workout to see if it would change anyone's predictions:

6x400 m with 3 min jog recovery.

68, 70, 69, 68 68, 69.

Done on a rolled-out section of road with a big hill for about 150 meters of the rep.

so, 6x400 at 62-63 (hill adjusted) with full rest... Sounds like a 4:38/2:03 guy

Why the eff do people on letsrun post some random workout with no context and expect to get a meaningful estimate of their race fitness?

This particular workout seems especially dumb to use as a predictor. You basically did 8x600 at 5k pace with equal rest, and admitted you didn't push yourself fully. That's not even a true vo2 max workout.

The point of doing workouts is not to guage your fitness. The point is to improve your fitness. Runners who overachieve on race day usually underachieve in practice.

am I still banned? wrote:

Why the eff do people on letsrun post some random workout with no context and expect to get a meaningful estimate of their race fitness?

This particular workout seems especially dumb to use as a predictor. You basically did 8x600 at 5k pace with equal rest, and admitted you didn't push yourself fully. That's not even a true vo2 max workout.

The point of doing workouts is not to guage your fitness. The point is to improve your fitness. Runners who overachieve on race day usually underachieve in practice.

8x600 w/ 1:1 rest @ 5k pace or slightly faster isn't a vo2 max workout? News to me.

NAUSUX wrote:

speed? wrote:

Another workout to see if it would change anyone's predictions:

6x400 m with 3 min jog recovery.

68, 70, 69, 68 68, 69.

Done on a rolled-out section of road with a big hill for about 150 meters of the rep.

so, 6x400 at 62-63 (hill adjusted) with full rest... Sounds like a 4:38/2:03 guy

3 minute jogging rest is not even remotely full rest lmao.

highhoppingworm wrote:

am I still banned? wrote:

Why the eff do people on letsrun post some random workout with no context and expect to get a meaningful estimate of their race fitness?

This particular workout seems especially dumb to use as a predictor. You basically did 8x600 at 5k pace with equal rest, and admitted you didn't push yourself fully. That's not even a true vo2 max workout.

The point of doing workouts is not to guage your fitness. The point is to improve your fitness. Runners who overachieve on race day usually underachieve in practice.

8x600 w/ 1:1 rest @ 5k pace or slightly faster isn't a vo2 max workout? News to me.

Yes, poster is right. Daniels said that on such short intervals rest should be different:

400m start each rep every 2min, so rest=2-interval duration

600m start each rep every 3min, so rest=3-interval duration;

In OP case a good vo2max session should be like this:

8x600 @05:15, rest=180-118=62 seconds

It may not be the most productive VO2 max workout but saying it isn't one is a bit disingenuous. In no world is 4800m of work at reps over 400m at 3k-5k pace with 1:1 rest not targeting VO2 max.

It may be early season with short rest intervals in future workouts or something.

CopperRunner wrote:

NAUSUX wrote:

so, 6x400 at 62-63 (hill adjusted) with full rest... Sounds like a 4:38/2:03 guy

3 minute jogging rest is not even remotely full rest lmao.

you must me a 23:xx 5k guy

Well then, stop arguing and respect the word, the meaning and the purpose.

You have sub 4 potential and more. Stop lecturing everyone about everything and start achieving your potential.