Road Racing and Training Thread - Week Ending 1/23/22

Male, 29, 6', 130 lbs.

PRs: 5K: 15:18 (indoors) (2021), 8K: 25:16 (2021), Half Marathon: 69:38 (2021), Marathon: 2:30:25 (2019)

Goal races: NYC Half, Boston Marathon,

Goal: NYC Half: PR, Boston Marathon: 2:20 mid/finally break 2:30

M: Off

T: 8.52 miles, 3 mile w/u, 3x 400-300-200 w/ 100 jog rest between, 300 between sets, 3 mile cooldown (Strength training after)

W: 8 miles @ 6:48 pace

TH: off (work trip went long)

F: 6.32 miles @ 7:44 pace

S: 2 mile w/u, 3K Race (8:49), 2 mile jog, workout (Mile, 400 jog, Mile, 400 jog, 800), 2 mile c/d

Sun: 14 miles @ 7:37 avg

Notes:

Tues: We got smacked by snow on Monday. Track was completely covered by snow. Figured I could get away with it by wearing spikes. Horrible idea. Made it through one set significantly slower than I needed to be at and my Achilles didn't like it. (77, 60, 39). Threw on some vaporflys and ran in the middle of the street to finish it off but I messed up the rest and ran too much. (4:45 pace, 4:37, 5:03 pace (icy patch)) (4:52, 4:40 pace, 4:38 pace). Was super frustrated with this workout. Absolutely everything went wrong.

Sat:

Race (Michigan Invitational: DFL (8:49.78)

I knew ahead of time that this would most likely be a lonely race considering who was at the front of it. Coach told me to attach myself to the back of the pack and just race. I think the assumption was that there would be some guys hanging around 8:40 pace. The leaders were going to go out in 4:20 and close in 2:30 for their last K so I had no business moving with anyone at the front. Just don't get too in the way when the Very Nice Track Club guys go past and I'll be happy. Or just don't get lapped twice.lol.

I attached myself to the back of the pack and went through the first 200 still staying comfortable in 34. Then the pack started to move. Dead last through the 400 in 68 and I decided to focus on my own race and start clicking off 70s. It was surreal to be that fall off a pack so early and I could kind of hear the crowd say the same. But I felt good and just focused on taking it a lap at a time. Went through 1K in 2:53 and started to labor a bit. Got slow over the next K where I went through in just over 3:00. From there I knew I could PR (Old PR was 8:55.99 from 2016) if I just stayed focused. Very Nice Track Club guys lapped me with about 600 or 800 to go I think and I the excitement got me back into it. Still clipped off 35s until 400 to go where I needed a sub 70 to get me under 8:50. With 200 to go I caught a Michigan State guy and he turned on the jets and completed dusted me. Still stayed strong and ran my second fastest split in 33.7. 8:49.77 for a 6 second PR.

Post Workout:

Jogged out to Ferry Field with my coach and a teammate of mine and ripped off mile, 400 jog, mile, 400 jog, 800 (ran the first half of my coach's rep). 5:10, 5:05, 2:20. I was shocked at how good I felt after a race. This gave me a ton of confidence coming into the rest of this buildup. If I can just jump in and PR at 3k during a marathon training session I can't wait to see what else I can do. I'm in the best shape of my life for sure.

M33, 5'10"/160

Goal Race: Boston 2022

Relevant PR: 2:56:53

M: 13.2 on the treadmill (2 Sopranos Episodes made this bearable)

T: 4.5 on the treadmill (tight time-wise on vacation)

WE: 5 @ 7:57 E in NYC (treadmill running really beat up on my legs)

THU: 6.6 ft. 2x 1.75mi Tempo w/ 2' rest on Central Park rolling hills (avg. 6:25 then 6:17), felt OK on these but first segment was really uphill and I definitely was still fatigued/readjusting to the cold. Overall decent effort, though not the splits I could hit last year.

FRI: 6.3 @ 8:55R, ran some with fiancee

SAT: 6@9:31 R, paced first half of her long run

SUN: 14.2@ 7:18 ft. 3.4 pickup at 6:44 pace, truth be told I ran on some icy trails in the West Side parks etc otherwise this might've been quicker, very good long run effort and felt good

TOTAL: 54.5ish, bit bloated due to 2 long runs.

Overall encouraged by long runs and how I feel on normal runs. Bit concerned that HM pace and faster workouts have been harder than in the past.

Nice work beersandmiles

beersandmiles - Holy crap.... That is absurdly gutty. It's almost incredible to imagine dropping 70's and getting lapped. Totally makes sense that the ones doing the lapping could help invigorate you. Nice close in sub 34. Wow.

I have never heard of a cooldown like that. My GOD. Marathon training must have your endurance through the roof. I've heard of people PRing in 5K's, 10K's off of pure marathon training. PRing in the 3K is pretty impressive. I'm wondering if this is a sign you should keep on doing what you're doing?

F45

Spring schedule: Cherry Blossom 10mi, Boston (both April)

Mo: 7 easy on the treadmill

Tu: 8 easy

We: 15min easy + 3T + 2T + 1E = 8 mi. Had wanted to do the T segments more around 7:30 but could not get down past 7:45 avg in the first 3 and then 7:50 in the second 2. Felt a lot harder than I think that pace should. It was around 50 degrees out, not especially cold, so I don't know how much I can blame the weather, though it was a bit windy it wasn't that terrible. Kind of discouraged by that workout.

Th: 7.2 easy, hills

Fr: 5 easy, very cold and windy

Sa: off -- was barely 20 out and I wasn't going to bother trying my long run/workout in that, and couldn't face a third weekend long run in a row on the treadmill. Was supposed to be warmer Sunday, so waited a day.

Su: 3E + 6M + 7E = 16mi M was around 7:55-8:00. I'd hoped to do instead 6M + 4M with 1E between and get to ~18 miles but that 6th M mile in the first set was getting too tough so I bailed on the second set and just ran out the rest of the 16 mi easy. Also a bit discouraged by this workout. It was warmer than Friday and Saturday but still only around 35. I was feeling cold during the last few miles and had wished I had brought something to change into after getting kind of sweaty during the M segment. Again not sure if the weather played into it at all but don't think I can't hang it all on that?

Total mi 51

Kind of feel like I'm making no progress and almost feel like I'm going backwards. Maybe I'm just not in as good shape as I think I should be; a couple months ago, paces I'm struggling to hit now did not feel this hard. Was taking it easy for 2 weeks at the end of Dec that detrimental to my fitness?? Am I just in a reset because of it?

Not sure how much of it has to do with weather -- I'm sure the cold is having some effect but I don't know. Don't remember feeling this way in other years.

I'll keep putting in the work and hopefully start to see some gains after a few weeks of consistency.

BHViking wrote:

beersandmiles - Holy crap.... That is absurdly gutty. It's almost incredible to imagine dropping 70's and getting lapped. Totally makes sense that the ones doing the lapping could help invigorate you. Nice close in sub 34. Wow.

I have never heard of a cooldown like that. My GOD. Marathon training must have your endurance through the roof. I've heard of people PRing in 5K's, 10K's off of pure marathon training. PRing in the 3K is pretty impressive. I'm wondering if this is a sign you should keep on doing what you're doing?

I think I was more nervous about this race than Boston, more because I just didn't want to get in anyone's way. I signed up because I was going to be in town for a work trip and my coach and track club teammate were racing. When I saw the heat sheet I was like oh boy what did I get myself into.

I was a bit confident that I could at least break my PR. I ran 15:18 indoors completely solo in early February last year so I figured if I could just sneak under that PR I would be pretty happy with the day. One thing I've realized is that the loneliness of marathon training/racing in no mans land in more of my longer races than not have made me much stronger in situations like this. Plus to be able to have the opportunity to still race indoors at 29 is pretty cool. Just happy to still be doing this.

As for the training, I've been super happy with the current system I'm in. I've slowed the miles down on my easy days and have actually stayed healthy for more than a couple months at a time. I've now PRd in every distance but the 800, Mile, and Steeple, and I'll try my hand at taking that mile PR down next month. I'm having a ton of fun most importantly.

beersandmiles - I know what you mean about the loneliness aspect. I'm MUCH slower than you and even I have been virtually alone in the marathon / half marathon races I've run but they are also smaller races locally (maybe 1800 people max). Seems like these races are extremely crowded at much slower paces (the opposite of your 3K!).

I guarantee that won't be an issue at Boston for either of us! There should be loads of people in the mid 2:20's to pull you along. The "training alone" problem is a tough one to fix. Marathon training takes a lot of time and if you're going to run with someone else you probably need to add extra time for driving to meet them. So much easier and time efficient just to head out the front door and go.

AverageForFun wrote:

-jmar would love to run as a pack with you again this spring if you haven’t decided on a spring race yet. You considered a half or full? NYRR Half in March is going to be fun.

Good question - leaning toward a half with possibly a debut full in the fall, but also haven't closed the door on running a full in the spring.

Either way will be looking for a late April/early May race as training will be taking a backseat due to crazy hours at work for the next month or so, then want to give myself time to get back up to full training workload and put in a good training block. I'll keep NYC Half back of mind for a tuneup race though, have always wanted to run that one!

Some comments:

Stone Cutter: Good to see what looks like a quick rebound from being sick.

GNR1: Good looking week, if you can stack similar weeks together, I would say you at least meet your goal of improved consistency.

Sub 6: Couple of nice workouts in there. Any goals for the February marathon?

Allen: Sounds like a good wife, except possibly from the perspective of training

RRR: Sounds like a crazy week. Hopefully a good reset heading into the marathon build.

AverageForFun: Sounds like some dicey weather especially considering how far South you are. Nice job still getting in some good work despite conditions!

Darkwave: Taping the torso is an interesting idea to promote good form. Good luck in continuing to get to the source of your issues.

Slow Miles, Slower Bests: Nice mile race, sounds like good tactics in not overresponding to the mid-race surge. Agree 4:20 looks to be in the cards with more even pacing.

Notarobot: Interesting week indeed, quite sure that I could not long jump that far.

Mrs. Stone: Another big week, any tuneup races planned before Salisbury?

BHViking: Crazy volume, how are the legs feeling coming out of that?

HHW: Nice mileage progression heading into the marathon build. This would be your first live race post-COVID correct?

CarlyRae: Good looking base week. Masked running on a treadmill sounds terrible.

RunnerSam: Crazy fast 800’s, especially given the cold. Got a goal 5k picked out yet for spring?

Thicc Mike: Enjoy Flag! Truly living the hobby jogger dream now.

OR: Good to see you back on your feet.

Beersandmiles: All I can say is not all DFL are created equal. Sounds like an awesome experience getting to share the track with the VNTC guys!

Thoughtsleader: Sopranos on the treadmill would make things a lot more bearable

Drcrusher: Keep putting in the work and I’m sure results will come.

Stone: Sure looks like you're on target to meet your goals. Sunday's 17-miler was very strong, and dropping the blubber is gonna make a HUGE difference. Gotta warn you though --- age 43-44 can be a bit different than 38-39.

Sub6: That 20 with 3x3 was stellar. Confidence boost for Feb 20?

RRR: Hope this week is going well; I'm anticipating a rewarding racing season for you.

jmar: Healed up? I hear you on the snow and cold. I headed out for a "long run" yesterday, slipped on ice, re-twisted my knee, limped back home. Treadmill tomorroow! RE: spring marathon, if you're targeting a fall race, maybe good to run a no-pressure marathon in the spring -- just for the experience?

Average: Impressive volume. When is that HM in Boston?

darkwave: I know you've faced challenges recently, but, wow, you continue to be a study in total fitness. Your experiment with core stability is fascinating and inspiring (as in I need to get back to at least MINIMAL core work!).

Slow Miles: Congrats on the 4:22!

notarobot: Treadmills and dogs. Ouch. Congrat on the 1500 -- gutsy to go out hard like that. And your 14'4" shows natural athleticism. My LJ PR is about 6 feet.

HHH: Nice transition back, and impressive weight loss in three weeks!

CarlyRae: Solid week. Wow, tough to attempt a workout in this weather (and with traffic and stoplights!). Sunday I counted vehicles on my 6-mile route -- had to share the road with four cars and a snow plow. Too busy for my likes, but that's New York.

RunnerSam: Big mileage -- should pay off this year. You're at the age to expect peak lifetime performances for 5K, 10K. 6x800 has long been a go-to workout for me, but I struggle to keep the recoveries much shorter than rep duration. Kudos for 2-min recoveries!

THCC: Good luck with the taper and the marathon. If you run Boston, you'll get to enjoy racing at sea level!

OR: Yeah, it's too late now to run your spring marathon, even as a "rust-buster." Best to regroup, and rebuild. It's too bad you didn't have more opportunities to race when you were a "youngster" in the 50-54 age group. But, hey, when you're an AG winner at 54, that's all the more impressive!

Beers: Congrats on the PR. It's gotta feel great to be able to write:If I can just jump in and PR at 3k during a marathon training session I can't wait to see what else I can do. I'm in the best shape of my life for sure." NICE!

THOUGHTS: That's a good mid-winter week.

drcrusher: Nothing wrong with a "maintenance month" or two. Recover, regroup, reassess. You've been racing at a national class level for a long time. Enjoy the new age group.

BHViking: I like that 10/5 approach to totaling that massive volume. I have only the slightest idea of what that would be like -- did two weeks of doubles when I walked onto a Div III college team (after taking three years off from training). That left me injured the rest of the season (although I continued racing).

Out of curiosity, I took another look at old training records. Below are my monthly MPW averages, starting with that college track season. Also, last week I was MISTAKEN regarding weather conditions for that hilly 2:47 Labor Day marathon (was low 70s). The 90-degree weather was the following year, and I didn't break 3 hours for that one!

Mar -- 62 mpw avg (Div III walk-on)

Apr -- 46 mpw avg (Div III walk-on)

May -- injured

June -- injured

July -- 38 mpw avg

Aug -- 42 mpw avg

Sep -- 40 mpw avg -- Marathon 3:15

Oct -- 38mpw avg -- Marathon 2:52

Nov -- 35 mpw avg

Dec -- 28 mpw avg

Jan -- 25 mpw avg

Feb -- 27 mpw avg

Mar -- 32 mpw avg

Apr -- 38 mpw avg

May -- 42 mpw avg -- Marathon 3:02

Jun -- 50 mpw avg

July -- 49 mpw avg

Aug -- 47 mpw avg

Sep -- 29 mpw avg -- Marathon 2:47

Oct -- 52 mpw avg -- Marathon 2:45

Nov -- 49 mpw avg -- Marathon 2:40

It’s going okay this week. Just getting miles in anywhere I can. Just fatigued still from everything. Thought maybe covjd on top but I have tested negative 3x since back.

All who run Boston be sure and come by the expo and get some free swag from your ole buddy RRR

Yup. First live race since COVID. Had a couple on the calendar but injuries, pregnancies etc. have always gotten in the way.

Really excited to make this work and can hopefully find a HM as well in the buildup.

[quote]Allen1959 wrote:

jmar: Healed up? I hear you on the snow and cold. I headed out for a "long run" yesterday, slipped on ice, re-twisted my knee, limped back home. Treadmill tomorroow! RE: spring marathon, if you're targeting a fall race, maybe good to run a no-pressure marathon in the spring -- just for the experience?[quote]

Tentative yes as to being healed. Been back at it for a couple days with everything being decent. Interesting idea to do a low-stakes spring marathon debut, maybe with residual fitness following a goal half. Decisions, decisions...

Plan is to run NYRR Half, and try to go sub 2:40 at Boston. March for the half and then April we try to race fast.

Sub6 - solid LR workout, glad you are able to balance running, working and the new kiddo pretty effectively

Allen - nice progressions

Darkwave - thanks for the psoas tips! I'm mostly out of it but still stretching it some. I agree with the cortisone, try to avoid. & Sounds like a second opinion for the neurological is a good idea.

Slower Miles, Slower Bests - great workouts and races, gotta love racing the mile

notarobot - multisport athlete! nice job with the Long Jump. I gave up on jumps in middle school when I didn't make it to the sand pit in the triple jump

Mrs Stone - Averaging 10+ miles a day in 2022 is a good sign, plus quick 1 mile & 3600 repeats.

BHV - impressive doubles every weekday, I've been trying to double more but am still pretty tired some mornings

hhw - solid weeks leading up to the vermont cycle. It will be nice to see what you can do in a real race

CarlyRaeJM - good job running through the elements

beersandmiles - congats on the 3k, thanks for the write up.

Dr. Crusher - hard to say why you might be feeling off, ive been meaning to go back through the last month+ to see if I could give you any insight but haven't yet. I'm sure the cold is slowing the quality work down some.

jmar - I have some races on the schedule but no 5k lined up in the planned 'racing' phase yet. I will race a 5 miler on 2/19 and a 4 miler on 3/12. A fast 5k on 3/19 that Stone and I were going to race isnt happening again this year (& not since 2019!) so that is a bummer. Will race a slower 5k on 4/30 but want to race 1-2 more in march/april. If I can PR by ~45s I will sign up for Swarthmore Last Chance in May if they allow unattached.

Allen - Hopefully I still have PRs in the mile and up ahead of me, idk if I will see a sub 2:17 800 though. I'll be trying for shorter recovery more often, more race specific.

Salisbury Marathon - My parents got covid 2 weeks ago and my dad hasn't ran since, he was 2-3 weeks into a 13 week plan I made him and is now only 9(?) weeks out. That combined with a couple work trips between now and April means that he is probably bailing on the planned marathon. I think he will give Atlantic City Marathon a try in the Fall instead. Not going to call it until he runs a few times, but not looking likely. The parents are fine, were mostly just extra tired for ~10 days with the cold-like omicron symptoms

RunnerSam wrote:

My parents got covid 2 weeks ago and my dad hasn't ran since, he was 2-3 weeks into a 13 week plan I made him and is now only 9(?) weeks out. That combined with a couple work trips between now and April means that he is probably bailing on the planned marathon. I think he will give Atlantic City Marathon a try in the Fall instead.

Sorry to hear that. I'm hoping my son stays healthy for our May marathon. He's been taking days off occasionally, due to back problems; and a few other days off with foot issues.

Depending on how the spring marathon goes, I might consider another in the fall -- Wineglass (Corning NY) or Mohawk-Hudson River (Albany NY). A college teammate (whom I haven't seen since 1982!) says he and his wife are running Wineglass, so that could be fun.

Thanks for thinking of going back and looking. This week I've actually felt a lot better. I changed what I've been eating a little bit and I think that has had an impact; I feel less empty during a run.

Also, I did a tempo workout on the treadmill last night, inside where it's NOT cold, and felt just loads, loads better. I hope this feeling better continues.

I ran Atlantic City a couple times about ten years ago, I tied my PR there in pretty perfect conditions and I would look back on it very fondly but for the cheater who stole 3rd place from me and the months-long struggle to get her disqualified afterward. It's a decent race as long as the weather cooperates. The second time I ran it, it was SO windy that the whole stretch along the boardwalk/the shore was miserable. I felt sandblasted and like I was getting nowhere.