How to train for a spring marathon

Spring marathon wrote:PB 03:01 on 70 miles following pfitz 18/70. I want to get under 2 55. Can you suggest a plan?

What aspects of the Pfitzinger plan do you feel worked or didn't work for you? How many weeks between now and your marathon? How old are you? When was the 3:01? Have you been maintaining a base since then?

I had good results with a 9-day cycle I wrote, based on the Pfitzinger schedules. I included a long run, medium-long run, LT pace workout, and VO2max pace workout every nine days. Easy/recovery or rest the other 5 days.

Long run maxed at 23 miles, 5 weeks before the race. Weekly (7-day) average volume was about 50 mpw.

Allen1959 wrote:

Spring marathon wrote:PB 03:01 on 70 miles following pfitz 18/70. I want to get under 2 55. Can you suggest a plan?

What aspects of the Pfitzinger plan do you feel worked or didn't work for you? How many weeks between now and your marathon? How old are you? When was the 3:01? Have you been maintaining a base since then?

I had good results with a 9-day cycle I wrote, based on the Pfitzinger schedules. I included a long run, medium-long run, LT pace workout, and VO2max pace workout every nine days. Easy/recovery or rest the other 5 days.

Long run maxed at 23 miles, 5 weeks before the race. Weekly (7-day) average volume was about 50 mpw.

It was last October and been running 60 miles since then. I'm 40 years old and the plan was good, however I don't know if I'll improve repeating it again?

What's your pr? And have you used the plan multiple times?

You can probably break 2:55 just by repeating it again honestly

*as someone who has improved repeating it again

Spring marathon wrote:

It was last October and been running 60 miles since then. I'm 40 years old and the plan was good, however I don't know if I'll improve repeating it again?

What's your pr? And have you used the plan multiple times?

The Pfitzinger plans, as I recall, generally call for a long run and medium-long run most weeks, plus an LT workout early in the plan, then emphasizing VO2 max later on. My thought was to, instead, touch on all the Daniels' paces throughout the 16 weeks.

I wanted to be "race-ready" for any distance, so it seemed a reasonable approach. If I raced a 5K, that would be my "VO2max workout;" a 15K race would be considerer an LT workout. Racing, I feel, besides being fun, is good psychological preparation.

I've used the 9-day plan for two racing cycles. The first included a marathon, the second did not. The first cycle followed a lackluster 3:25 marathon and a 20-minute 5K (age 57). After 5 months, I ran 18:58 for 5K. After 8 months, 59:59 for 15K (age 58).

After 10 months, I ran 3:07 marathon. At 58, that age-grades to 2:35, compared to my actual PR of 2:40 (at age 23). Prior to the 3:07, a then-undiagnosed knee condition sidelined me for much of the two months prior to the marathon, but I still did the long runs.

Despite Pfitz calling for it, I don't target MP in training because it's too difficult for me (I've tried). I train faster, I train slower, and trust my body to naturally know marathon pace on race day. My three most recent marathons were all slightly negative splits (second half compared to first half), so no trouble intuitively finding MP right from the gun.

Finally, the LT and VO2max workouts contribute greatly even for the marathon, but I feel long runs and recovery are the KEY ingredients. With the 9-day cycle, I'm scheduling 5 rest/recovery days out of every 9 days.

Prior to the 3:07, a then-undiagnosed knee condition sidelined me for much of the two months prior to the marathon, but I still did the long runs.

Looking back on my logs, I was still able to average 40 mpw for the final 6 weeks, despite the knee issue. Not as bad as I recalled, but those weeks should have included my biggest mileage -- immensely disappointing at the time. Race times in August (late Oct marathon) predicted 3:02.

At 43, I used a similar approach, but a more traditional 7-day cycle, including a long run almost every week. Plus track workouts, progression medium-long runs, a race every other week or so. Recovery ability much better than 15 years later; about 45 mpw, peak of 63. Ran a very easy 2:56:03 (1:28:30/1:27:33).

brunojackson wrote:You can probably break 2:55 just by repeating it again honestly

Also, I agree with this.

Yep -- do 70 miles a week & try to make small improvements during the same workouts & you'll get there. Pfitz is pretty solid marathon training. Anything else you find will have a lot of similar elements. If you have the time, you can try to add in some easy doubles & go from 70 to 80 miles/week.

A lot of times, marathoners get stuck because they never improved leg speed for faster marathon times. I think you can run 2:55. After that, you have to ask yourself if your 5k-half is fast enough to target something faster than 2:55. I would think about a small VO2 segment (~4 weeks) before getting into your marathon build. Probably should have been doing that before now but do a spring marathon off of Pfitz, run 2:55, then recover & hit shorter races in the summer/fall. Do a goal half in October/November, after a summer of working on your speed. Then do another marathon on a 70 mile/week plan the following spring & you could jump from 2:55 down into the 2:40s.