Have you ever met a Calvinist?

Yes, calvinists are Christian nazis. Also they’re very angry self righteous people. Avoid them at all costs.

predestin-what??? wrote:

Most non Christian’s or even Christian’s don’t realize that most of the New Testament was written by a man that never even met Jesus but instead saw him in a vision. Nobody believes someone who saw a vision so why would we believe Paul? Yet he almost entirely shapes Protestantism and Calvinism.

Not most. All. All of the new testament was written decades after the death of Jesus. This is well known by theologians.

There are no eyewitness accounts of Jesus. Anywhere. Not in the bible. Not outside of the bible. Everything in and out of the bible is a collection of second (or third, fourth, or fifth) hand accounts, or accounts of the followers.

predestin-what??? wrote:

With all do respect, if you can truly accept the God of Calvinism, you are not loving despite your actions.

I’m really not oversimplifying it. Just because people write volumes on the 5 points of Calvinism doesn’t mean it’s not very simple. People make it more complex in order to validate what’s really just a horrendous teaching. What earthly parent would mimic this with children? Who would accept a parent lavishing one kid and throwing another in a locked dungeon and blaming them for not being able to get out?

There is a variations of all this that says we’re all elect and all are predestined. Trinitarian and universalism type theology. This teaches the same thing just not that either the evil idea that most all humans burn for eternity.

I’d say that being a Calvinist makes me more loving! God elects people to be saved, and I can be a means by which other elect can be saved. It is not by my hand that people reach salvation, but by sharing the gospel, I can share the love that has been shared to me.

Christianity is a continuation of Judaism. Just as God selected Abraham and Israel to be His people, God continues to elect. Not based off of good things I have done, but by His own mercy.

Why should I act smug when it was not my choice? Why should think I am special when I know I offend God every day with my sin?

I try to reflect the love God shows to me to my friends and neighbors.

Conversely, if I chose God, well that would be something I did! It would be MY actions that saved me. That would make me very special, wouldn’t it? Jesus died so that maybe I could be saved. Thankfully I am so smart and special that I chose him.

Your parent example Is humorous and shows that you don’t understand predestination or Calvinism.

One of you will say to me: "Then why does God still blame us? For who resists his will?"

But who are you, O man, to talk back to God? "Shall what is formed say to him who formed it, `Why did you make me like this?'"

Are you a Christian?

randomist wrote:

Am more of a Hobbsist myself.

great post

Interesting. Sounds like a strong minded religion. Who started it?

No. I'm not "special," not expecting an "eternal reward," have no supernatural leanings or ambitions.

Cannot visualize or hypothesize about "god" or "heaven" or humankind as being children of God deserving of reward or punishment for flollowing or not following transcribed doctrine and texts other men have declared as "sacred." Those people have convinced themselves thar they are superior to all other living things and have dominion over them. I'm just human and hope only to be a good neighbor to other living things, even the two-legged ones who are kind to and appreciative of and respectful to each other. I don't even like how "holy" all that sounds!

You are welcome to your specialness and your dreams of eternal bliss. Just please quit all the destruction in the name of God! Quit denying that we are the Destroyers--first step toward saving Earth!

coachcommentsnicely wrote:

Johannes C wrote:

Yes, I am and know many. I don't agree with all the Calvinist teaching and I think predestination is badly misunderstood, misused, and overrated as a concept.

Are you saying Calvinists don’t understand predestination or the general public?

I know Mormons have a negative perception of Calvinists. My Mormon friends are always surprised/disgusted when they learn that I am Calvinistic

Funny! As if there aren't massive flaws and fakery in Mormonism. You call them "friends"?

Sinners wrote:

Yes, calvinists are Christian nazis. Also they’re very angry self righteous people. Avoid them at all costs.

I come from a community which was historically strongly Calvinistic and has quite become de-populated. I'd agree with you. The people that are left aren't a bundle of fun. Definitely self-righteous, almost a bit like the Taliban in that they don't like displays of anything that might indicate enjoyment, pleasure or fun. My opinion of them is that they are all somewhat scared of the world and need to have a lot of control over their environment in order to feel secure. My mother could not wait to get away from that community, and still refers to them as "fun-killers" and heavily sexist in their attitude towards women.

I've rescued animals who were previously owned by Mormons, and while I can't speak for them all, they don't seem big on treating working animals well and treat them like disposable consumer goods.

Presbyterians are Calvinists. What's the big deal?

I’m not going to argue Calvinism with someone who doesn’t believe in the Bible. We don’t share a common ground.

I love the straw man you built, makes it easier to roast. :) I can’t speak for every Calvinist/Christian, but the ones I know personally contribute positively to the community.

Your post screams “Gods not real and I hate him”.

Calvinists think they are so superior that if you ask them, they will admit they are not worthy of salvation, but deserve eternal damnation. What a complex!

“Quit denying that we are the destroyers”

I don’t know where this came from… I’m not denying that we’ve (people in general) had a negative impact on the environment.

Raised Calvinist wrote:

coachcommentsnicely wrote:

Are you saying Calvinists don’t understand predestination or the general public?

I know Mormons have a negative perception of Calvinists. My Mormon friends are always surprised/disgusted when they learn that I am Calvinistic

Funny! As if there aren't massive flaws and fakery in Mormonism. You call them "friends"?

Oh for sure! There are more flaws in Mormonism than any other Christian cult. I do have Mormon friends! They are nice people. And they need to know the truth.

From what I’ve gathered, Mormons expect Calvinists to be cold, smug and mean-spirited. Which is not how I act at all.

Try asking one!

A more interesting question is whether anyone who claims to be a Calvinist (or anti-Calvinist) has even so much as cracked open Institutes of the Christian Religion.

randomist wrote:

Am more of a Hobbsist myself.

/thread

mods please Locke it

Thank you for all the responses this has been very edifying!!

Literati wrote:

A more interesting question is whether anyone who claims to be a Calvinist (or anti-Calvinist) has even so much as cracked open Institutes of the Christian Religion.

What prompted me to ask this question was actually a discussion with a friend of mine who read Institutes!! This and reading Maturin's Melmoth the Wanderer, which is unabashadley Calvinist. I aim to read Institutes at some point, and Augustine and other important theological works,

It's my understanding that one of the thrusts of predestination is to illustrate God's mercy -- even the most reprehensible elect may be saved. It is also a logically consistent interpretation of omniscience, and to some degree creation

Calvinism definitely does have serious Orthodox Jewish undertones, as they do believe that they can save the rest of the "elect" (Jews) from damnation. Why does it feel good when they think I am Jewish?

I was raised Orthodox Christian , and although I'm not ~really~ religious anymore feel that is much closer to what "the answer" would be. I remember hearing about Calvinsits and their predestination in Sunday school and being told they were seriously misguided, or something. Their interpretation of salvation could smell like Calvinism if you think about it in the right way: everyone could choose to be saved, but not everyone wants to.

Just throwing this in there, for people who might be curious:

I have previously attended Dutch Reformed Churches, Presbyterian churches and "Reformed Baptist" churches, and all of them were seriously Calvinistic in the "TULIP" line theology.

Point of interest: Just because a person/church/denomination believes in predestination, that does not mean that they are against missionary work that both preaches and builds infrastructure/resources in non-believing communities. People think it's an apathetic theology, which I think is historically an attack from Catholics and Anglicans. Might be wrong, but that is my sense. You would be amazed how much Calvinism is misrepresented. The Calvinistic churches I have attended have been extremely involved in the local community, and abroad, while still believing in the "elect." The thinking is strongly derived from greek and hebrew biblical textual exposition, as opposed to "traditions." My understanding is that reformed Christians don't know who the elect are or may be, but God does. So if you are a strong follower of this brand of Christianity, you want to do as much as possible, as an elect person, to spread the word and set a Christian example, because it pleases God. You can't ever argue someone into becoming a Christian, that's more a of a fundamentalist/Southern Baptist view, as far as I can tell...

Also, I have never heard of strong dislike for Lutherans. That sounds like a midwestern/ bible belt cultural thing, but I might be wrong. I would often hear Luther referenced or quoted, over the years.

I'm sorry I made my complaint about man kind-the-destroyer look as if it were addressed to you!

I saw no hate stated or implied against God. How could one hate something they don't recognize as existing?

My predominant points that were clear were that I don't relate to groups or individuals who think they are superior beings deserving of eternal rewards. And I don't relate to people who "scream" (?) ( I am not a screamer :)) denial of mankind's participation in and leadership in the destruction of life on Earth.

Big religion bears major responsibility for wars, death, and disease through the ages.

Literati wrote:

A more interesting question is whether anyone who claims to be a Calvinist (or anti-Calvinist) has even so much as cracked open Institutes of the Christian Religion.

That's not an interesting question at all, except to a few unemployed cannabis abusers. Most other people have no interest in that question, no matter what the answer is.

I grew up reading the comics Calvin and Hobbes. Does that make me a Calvinist?

/mu/tant runner wrote:

It's my understanding that one of the thrusts of predestination is to illustrate God's mercy -- even the most reprehensible elect may be saved. .

Yep.

God created us and we turned so absolutely wicked that by the sheer magnitude of his goodness he’ll forget that happened for some but not all. Sounds like a real great guy.

Those who go on to say that this is an oversimplification and that “all CAN choose, but don’t” are just lying to themselves.

This narrative makes no sense to those that weren’t brainwashed into it.