Looking at the results of yesterday's USATF XC Champs you have to ask should USATF just forget about holding this event in the future? The fields were ridiculously small you have to wonder it is just a waste of time and time just to stop holding it.
If it wants to keep holding the event every year what will it need to do to get more people to enter and more importantly get the elites to commit to supporting this event?
Hell no. Find money, sponsors, and other ways to build it up. And get rid of indoor track.
It’s sort of self limiting when you hold a club and masters national championship a month prior to another “nationals”. Plus, the U20 races are going to be sparse because no one is going to peak again 4-5 weeks after NCAA and the various high school championships.
We either have to accept that we suck internationally because XC is a fall sport in the US or we need to shift in line with the international calendar. There is no conflict with indoors. Long distance athletes will opt for XC and middle distance runners can play on the short tracks.
XC is a fall sport and that is where it should stay.
Lots of people are willing to train, participate, spectate, organize, volunteer, etc for an outdoor event in pleasant/acceptable weather.
Far fewer would be willing to do so in the cold and dark of winter. For many HS distance/XC runners, training becomes difficult from Dec-Feb and organized team workouts don't happen nearly as often or as regularly. If they occur at all.
Very, very few would be able to peak in Jan or Feb for XC.
The internationals should adopt OUR system. That would make far more sense.
It also doesn't help that there isn't a world championship team to make. Bathurst, Australia was supposed to host the meet this year, but it's postponed for another year.
Maybe USATF shouldn't have this meet in non-world championship years, or maybe consolidate the meet with the club xc meet? If anyone has a better answer, I'd like to see it.
just roll it in with clubs and add the U20 race to the schedule. more energy, the plebes pay for the event, and NCAA athletes can piggyback on their cross country season.
zdcfvx wrote:
XC is a fall sport and that is where it should stay.
Lots of people are willing to train, participate, spectate, organize, volunteer, etc for an outdoor event in pleasant/acceptable weather.
Far fewer would be willing to do so in the cold and dark of winter. For many HS distance/XC runners, training becomes difficult from Dec-Feb and organized team workouts don't happen nearly as often or as regularly. If they occur at all.
Very, very few would be able to peak in Jan or Feb for XC.
The internationals should adopt OUR system. That would make far more sense.
Modern America in a nutshell right here - We only do things if it is easy, convenient, and in optimal conditions.
Everyone should do things the American way because America.
Zam Boanga wrote:
It also doesn't help that there isn't a world championship team to make. Bathurst, Australia was supposed to host the meet this year, but it's postponed for another year.
Maybe USATF shouldn't have this meet in non-world championship years, or maybe consolidate the meet with the club xc meet? If anyone has a better answer, I'd like to see it.
Going way way way back- this race was held just to be a trials race for worlds.
There was no Club Nats, only the AAU/TAC etc Nationals held in November.
I can see only having it WC years and finding money to get the best runners there.
As to the Indoor Track suggestion in another post- I like Indoors but we don't events over 1 mile/1500.
Let the distance guys do road and cross races.
So the "peaking" excuse is not valid, as we have now confirmed that "peaking" is a mindset, not some physical manifestation .
The real issue is the back-to-back Nationals in December and January. We need to consolidate to one race. December date seems idea due to high school, NCAA, and World Athletics XC competitions. Making a team only impacts 0.0001% of athletes and if they are fortunate to make a team, they can make the decision to further pursue XC into March for international/global championships.
in the woods wrote:
Hell no. Find money, sponsors, and other ways to build it up. And get rid of indoor track.
This. Maybe fold-in the January event with JO XC in Nov-Dec and call it good. Kinda wish we had an event more like England's National rather than a bunch of splintered mini-meets.
zdcfvx wrote:
XC is a fall sport and that is where it should stay.
Yep, World XC in March is just nonsense. Have it the first few weeks in January.
I'm been thinking about this myself. Here's what I end up coming back to:
The best US runners used to do this. Rodgers would. Virgin and Salazar too. Lynn Jennings, Pat Porter. Deena certainly ran. It was considered a National Championships. It may have been THE National distance race of the year in the minds of many.
You may say it is still a US Champs. But so is the 15k in Florida and the 25k in Michigan. Those aren't absolute must-do for more recent generations any more than XC is. Rupp didn't line up for those every year. They're considered races for B-list Americans, I suspect, in the minds of many.
What changed? The last generation I remember that took it at all seriously was Hall vs Ritz, and Flanagan vs Huddle. That's a several year spread, but those were the top names in US distance in their primes. Those that weren't world class, but the national class crowd ran it just like they run the Marathon Trials. NCAA runners fattened up the field. Cassidy and friends go in OAR. Not just Bruce, who wins, I think but the next tier of up-and-comers.
Then it dropped off. Rupp's generation cared a lot about USATF Outdoor, but not about this. More recent waves of runners don't seem to be aware of it. Or maybe it's sort of on their radar, but it's no longer the definitive annual American distance race in the same sense that the Marathon Trials is The Event every 4 years.
Fortunately, there are occasional exceptions. What year was it recently when LRC compared the field from one of Deena's wins with Shelby's? I wouldn't mind reading that again, if Rojo sees this.... Scott Simmons' crowd stands out as an exception to the recent trend, too. Guys who can and literally have won at Outdoor are running this.
But let's face it. Today's best don't care about it like those years ago did. Why not? What's changed? If it never was a big deal, that would be one thing. But it was.
And now it's not.
I like your idea. Maybe we go back to calling this meet the world championship trials (only have this race in world championship years) and maybe give the winner of the club nationals (I’d rebrand the current club nationals as the national championships) an automatic spot on the world championships team & make the trials race for the top 5 finishers to get your WC team of six.
yup club nationals makes this race redundant. funny the san diego racers traveled to do club nationals yet didnt do the event in their own backyard!
Up the incentive to participate in the elite race. If there’s no prize money, then offer something of real value. What about if a top 10 finish in xc served as an auto qualifier for the 10K track nationals? Maybe that’s too low a bar. Anyway, USATF should get creative and figure out a way depending on the year to get our best to turn out. It might differ depending on the year and the incentive could be other than money.
USATF is a joke. Only $2000 for first place and all athletes had to pay their own way and hotels.
Incapable of driving wrote:
Looking at the results of yesterday's USATF XC Champs you have to ask should USATF just forget about holding this event in the future? The fields were ridiculously small you have to wonder it is just a waste of time and time just to stop holding it.
If it wants to keep holding the event every year what will it need to do to get more people to enter and more importantly get the elites to commit to supporting this event?
No international teams to qualify for made this meet less meaningful. Plus COVID made people gun shy risking the travel and planning. In years with a spot at worlds at stake this was always a big meet, blame the terribly COVID inept Australians for this. I wouldnt judge the event based on this years turnout.
As others have mentioned probably can merge with club nationals / masters to make it a reslly big meet. Could even merge with Junior Olympics XC, then you would have 1000s of kids cheering the elites on making the meet alot more exciting. Use some of the kids entry money to give to the winners. But the USATF loves that cash cow - who knows where that money go?
Hmmmm.... wrote:
I'm been thinking about this myself. Here's what I end up coming back to:
The best US runners used to do this. Rodgers would. Virgin and Salazar too. Lynn Jennings, Pat Porter. Deena certainly ran. It was considered a National Championships. It may have been THE National distance race of the year in the minds of many.
You may say it is still a US Champs. But so is the 15k in Florida and the 25k in Michigan. Those aren't absolute must-do for more recent generations any more than XC is. Rupp didn't line up for those every year. They're considered races for B-list Americans, I suspect, in the minds of many.
What changed? The last generation I remember that took it at all seriously was Hall vs Ritz, and Flanagan vs Huddle. That's a several year spread, but those were the top names in US distance in their primes. Those that weren't world class, but the national class crowd ran it just like they run the Marathon Trials. NCAA runners fattened up the field. Cassidy and friends go in OAR. Not just Bruce, who wins, I think but the next tier of up-and-comers.
Then it dropped off. Rupp's generation cared a lot about USATF Outdoor, but not about this. More recent waves of runners don't seem to be aware of it. Or maybe it's sort of on their radar, but it's no longer the definitive annual American distance race in the same sense that the Marathon Trials is The Event every 4 years.
Fortunately, there are occasional exceptions. What year was it recently when LRC compared the field from one of Deena's wins with Shelby's? I wouldn't mind reading that again, if Rojo sees this.... Scott Simmons' crowd stands out as an exception to the recent trend, too. Guys who can and literally have won at Outdoor are running this.
But let's face it. Today's best don't care about it like those years ago did. Why not? What's changed? If it never was a big deal, that would be one thing. But it was.
And now it's not.
What changed is they stopped holding worlds every year to every other year, and then now they havent had worlds since 2019 - blame Australia.
I remember nationals at blue lake park in December and the start line 20 meters wide. The best college and pros going head to head in December. It was awesome.
Not sure I would blame the Aussies...world xc in Aarhus was an amazing meet. Unfortunately the US teams came unprepared for the challenge. Bathurst will offer another stern test and it will be interesting what American athletes will want to run a tough course in hot weather on Feb 19th 2023.
If and I mean if it comes to be an Olympic sport again it will raise in profile or better yet put some real prize money into nationals.