Workouts in spikes vs carbon plated shoes vs daily trainers

no strong view other than to say do a lot of work (not necessarily all the work) in exactly the shoes you intend to race in.

You have to get your feet used to racing in your racing shoes....can't just slap them on and go race.

i do think that supershoes are a nice middle ground, but you should do a handful of workouts in spikes if you race in spikes.

i'd add that the injury risk of trying to hit exact splits based on times you ran in dragonflys, but while wearing hoka cliftons is honestly just as much of an injury risk as working out in spikes in the first place.

Spikes for 50% or more of the track intervals during season. Off-season I only spike up during speed work. I would go for a mix of a tempo shoe (I use Peg Turbo 2) and spikes (Dragonfly/ Mamba 5) if I were to do fast 400's at this time of the year. Something like 6 in tempo shoes and 4 in spikes.

I never did much work in spikes, usually just a few sharpening workouts. Otherwise, flats are fine. Look for something under 7 ounces, probably not a super shoe since you can't race in them anyway. Pay attention to the heel-toe drop; if you run everything in 10mm drop shoes your calves/Achilles won't be ready for spikes.

IMO it probably is risky to do frequent workouts in spikes, given that they're so stiff with no cushion, but you might be able to get away with it if you're just doing short intervals. I.e. 12 x 400 is a lot less pounding than 6 x mile. If this is HS, you'll probably be racing twice a week anyway, so that's plenty of time to get used to spikes.

I rarely did track workouts in spikes. I almost always ran in my trainers even when in college. I like the extra cushioning and spikes just don't give that.

Do some people think that doing track workouts in super shoes like endorphin speeds would reduce the benefit of the workout because you would be doing less of the work?

endorphinspeeds wrote:

Do some people think that doing track workouts in super shoes like endorphin speeds would reduce the benefit of the workout because you would be doing less of the work?

Nah.

1. It doesn't work that way. Theres generally no benefit to training in unoptimal conditions. For example, running when it's really hot, really windy, etc. will feel more strenuous but won't give you any more benefit than training in ideal conditions. Altitude is the only notable exception. If it didnt work this way, then everyones training would emphasize some sort of handicap to make their training more strenuous, like running with bricks for shoes. But, it doesnt work that way.

2. The misconception about training in racing shoes stems from old shoe technology necessitating a tradeoff between speed and comfort/cushion. You'd train in something more cushioned rather than your racing shoes not because the racing shoes would cheat you out of making an honest effort, no it was to save your legs. However, nowadays the racing shoes are BETTER for your legs than anything else. So the only real reason to train in something slower today is that supershoes are very expensive.

3. Supershoes aren't faster than spikes on the track. The spikes are faster. If anything is "cheating" it's the spikes, but like I said thats not how it works and the only things that matter is what's good on your legs and what's cheaper to do the bulk of your training in.

i have an old pair of vaporfly 4%s for trackwork that i really like.

Anything fast is in worn out dragonflys

Something to look at if you dont want the increase pounding of spikes but still want grip is the nike spike flats, its a lt4 racing flat with a spike plate built in

blank wrote:

i have an old pair of vaporfly 4%s for trackwork that i really like.

What is their's current mileage and general status?

I thought this podcast episode was well done. The interviewee studies the physics of super shoes and is able to apply some data to his assertions.

https://strengthrunning.com/2021/12/geoff-burns-super-shoes/

Anyone have an opinion on doing all runs in carbon plated Super shoes? Seems like pros are doing this. Any potential for injury from this?

coachy wrote:

Anyone have an opinion on doing all runs in carbon plated Super shoes? Seems like pros are doing this. Any potential for injury from this?

Yet to be figured out. Nobody knows, such early stage in super shoes era.

I think using a variety of shoes is always a good call. If you're gonna race in spikes, you should do some workouts in spikes but not always a ton of volume & maybe even just a handful of reps at the end of a workout or for faster 100-300 accelerations at the end of a bigger workout.

Nothing wrong with traditional flats or a super shoe for high volume workouts. Super shoes should help some with recovery. Traditional flats will have you feeling faster than you do in trainers plus will still have some cushioning.

I was debating if I should get some super shoes for workouts. The main thing is I don't want to go from zero drop flats to 8+ mm drops cause I'm worried about the injury risk. Also I train with zero drop shoes on easy runs too. But it seems like super shoes make it easier for the legs to recover. Is it worth the drastic increase in heel/toe drop and stack height?

Always have a transition time when changing drastically for instance stack height or drop. I would recommend you watch some videoes from "Doctors of running" on YouTube. They are professionals that knows what they are talking about. They talk some about changing type of shoes, stride etc. Go check them up before you change anything in your shoe department!

supashoes wrote:

Training for mile, and just wondering what types of shoes do people use for track intervals (quarters at mile pace, and the likes). I have been using my brooks glycerin, which are extremely cushioned, which leads to them feeling heavy at times. I know some people do track workouts in spikes, which I think sounds a little risky because the increased pounding on your feet. And now in the super shoe era, people are training doing all types of runs in Nike vaporflys, or Saucony endorphin speeds, which I was thinking would be more of a middle ground. Any thoughts on what is the right option.

I personally use my spikes for 90% of my track workouts. I find that if I'm doing anything at race pace where I'd be using spikes I should use spikes. A lot of the time a workout at race pace is not only to get you stronger but for you to learn and get used to the pace. It's a lot harder to run a fast 400 in cushiony shoes than spikes. Therefore running race pace workouts in trainers will make your race pace seem harder. There is also these thing called spike flats or splats which I've learned to love!

Flats for track workouts. I pretty much only wore spikes on race day.

Yes I know that it is better to train in the faster shoe in theory. But as I mentioned my real question is, is it worth the injury risk to train in a spike when I normally train in a extremely cushioned shoe that is the brooks glycerin.