RR: Japanese marathon legend takes shot at today's rabbited races. "When it's just the same old script it's boring as hell"

So what is he complaining about exactly? People don't race stupid enough to make it exciting?

hunter wheres the coke wrote:

So what is he complaining about exactly? People don't race stupid enough to make it exciting?

What he is saying is they people love drama. People love to see something which they cannot predict so it leaves them in suspense. Like when Sammy Wanjuri took out the 2008 Olympic marathon in the heat and humidity In Beijing there was a sense of what the hell are we watching? The temperature at the start was 72 but it rose to 84 during the race. Sammy might die out there but he damn well is going to show us what a warrior is in a marathon. It is compelling compared to much of what we see in marathons.

Not a fan of rabbited races. But also not a fan of sit and kick races. Of the two I’d rather see a fast race so I’d take the rabbited race (lesser of the two evils)

hunter wheres the coke wrote:

So what is he complaining about exactly? People don't race stupid enough to make it exciting?

LOL basically. I can't stand these guys who think going out at a ridiculous pace that you have no hope of sustaining is "brave" or "real racing" or whatever. At some point you're just a delusional idiot. I blame Pre.

Sammy Wanjiru was not likely to make things boring. I recall a Chicago marathon where he was allegedly not even in top shape but he simply willed himself to victory. Am I exaggerating? I don’t think so. He made for exciting races. So did Prefontaine. Galen Rupp not so much. Galen was good but he was not generally exciting to watch.

CJ Albertson’s run at Boston this year was a perfect example. Memorable. I think the fans enjoyed the show.

rhimby wrote:

hunter wheres the coke wrote:

So what is he complaining about exactly? People don't race stupid enough to make it exciting?

LOL basically. I can't stand these guys who think going out at a ridiculous pace that you have no hope of sustaining is "brave" or "real racing" or whatever. At some point you're just a delusional idiot. I blame Pre.

It’s not always a suicide mission. How many people watching Frerichs in Tokyo thought what she was doing was insane and was going to end in disaster? Instead, it was one of the best distance races ever run by an American at the Olympics.

Wise Old Man wrote:

rhimby wrote:

LOL basically. I can't stand these guys who think going out at a ridiculous pace that you have no hope of sustaining is "brave" or "real racing" or whatever. At some point you're just a delusional idiot. I blame Pre.

It’s not always a suicide mission. How many people watching Frerichs in Tokyo thought what she was doing was insane and was going to end in disaster? Instead, it was one of the best distance races ever run by an American at the Olympics.

That's my point. Her move was calculated and most importantly, it worked.

Remember Jeff Thies going out in like 1:50 in that USATF road mile? That's dumb as hell and I want to see less of that. Well actually, it was pretty hilarious.

People love it when runners boldly attack a race from the start by going out fast.

But they only remember it when those runners hang on and win.

In the same era as Nakayama's race in Fukuoka, we have similar memorable races by Benoit at the 1984 Olympics and Jones in Chicago in 1985, Bold and fast early moves and they hung on to win.

There are many many other times when runners went out really fast and then faded badly.

I would provide examples, but I just can't seem to remember their names...

There's too much focus on time in road marathons. That encourages flat, fast, boring courses. There's no equivalent to a classics cycling race where they go up real climbs repeatedly and give opportunity for more strategy. I'd like to see an approximate marathon distance (exact not required, and perhaps not wanted) equivalent to the Giro Il Lombardia or Liège–Bastogne–Liège courses for example. How boring would road cycling be if there were only flat, fast races?

Maybe World Athletics or just some race organizer needs to create a new class of hilly races (or be more creative with/bring back cross country) with course homologation for minimum number/total climb of hills.

I would love to see a mountainous marathon. The problem is $$$ comes from hobby joggers who want to notch a fast time. So tough courses get less participants and therefore less money. And I don't think World Athletics will accept a bid for a tough course since they know time recognition is what works to get eyeballs. If you say someone is trying to run 2:0x, then you might get some spectators.

Takeyuki Nakayama

He had a 10,000 personal best of 27:35.33, from Helsinki in July 1987, which impressed me even more than his marathon best and was pretty much absolute top speed for a marathon runner in those days.

He’s 61 years old now. Hopefully still healthy.

Takeyuki Nakayama[

5000 Metres 13:43.80 Oslo (NOR) 27 JUN 1985 1054

10,000 Metres 27:35.33 Helsinki (FIN) 02 JUL 1987 1170

30 Kilometres 1:29:52 Nagoya (JPN) 05 MAR 1989 1149

Marathon 2:08:15 Hiroshima (JPN) 14 APR 1985 1193

Ricky Spanish wrote:

I would love to see a mountainous marathon. The problem is $$$ comes from hobby joggers who want to notch a fast time. So tough courses get less participants and therefore less money. And I don't think World Athletics will accept a bid for a tough course since they know time recognition is what works to get eyeballs. If you say someone is trying to run 2:0x, then you might get some spectators.

That doesn't really get eyeballs, that's just a normal marathon these days. You'd get eyeballs and people cheering in person doing a 40K "hill classic" with laps over climbs like the Koppenberg. It'd definitely be more exciting on TV too. You can't run a WR in every marathon, but you can make the race exciting instead.

I think a hilly road race series could gain a following. Look at how fast gravel racing in cycling has taken off. People are probably bored running flat, fast marathons, or they should be bored. Trail racing is nice too, it would be nice to design a type of hilly road race that would draw the road runners, and not be so long as to take to put them off like ultras might. Maybe ~30K hilly road race format.

rojo wrote:

Having every race be rabbitted (and having every NY and Boston not be rabbited) is boring. Spice it up. I've long argued that the marathons should at least alternate years with and without rabbits.

Alternate the years when rabbits can be shot?

there's a difference between sammy wanjiru and negiyugi tekawayama

Ricky Spanish wrote:

I would love to see a mountainous marathon. The problem is $$$ comes from hobby joggers who want to notch a fast time. So tough courses get less participants and therefore less money. And I don't think World Athletics will accept a bid for a tough course since they know time recognition is what works to get eyeballs. If you say someone is trying to run 2:0x, then you might get some spectators.

There is the golden trail series with televised racing and the main distance is around Marathon distance

Rabbits or not I'll still watch marathons in it's entirety. But it is more exciting when the finish is unpredictable. Look at the excitement and attention the Americans receive when they podium in a major. Molly wasn't expected and neither was Flanagan. But it really added to an exciting finish. When Kipchoge leaves everyone behind with no one to challenge him to a finish. It's less exciting unless he's going for a new world record.

Also Yuki Kawauchi's inspiring Boston win where we went out hard, got reeled back in and was passed, falling 1:30 behind Kurui, but still incredibly came back to win.

Wise Old Man wrote:

CJ Albertson’s run at Boston this year was a perfect example. Memorable. I think the fans enjoyed the show.