Do you think the Crumbley parents are legally innocent?

Bound4Glory wrote:

https://www.foxnews.com/us/ethan-crumbley-parents-lawyers-gun-prosecution

Their attorneys claim: "That gun was actually locked, so when the prosecution is stating that this child had free access to a gun, that is...absolutely not true".

Come on. Something said by someone's attorney is not necessarily a fact.

Anyway, for the record, if (big if) the "group think" version of the story is true, that his parents really did give Ethan possession of the gun, and if his parents were aware of Ethan's online violence threats and the school shooting countdown, and if they saw his original picture during the morning of the shooting, then yes, I agree that they should be held responsible.

I just question that version of the story. I think you should too.

Bound4Glory wrote:

https://www.newsweek.com/some-students-stayed-home-ahead-oxford-school-shooting-due-online-threats-1654913

The article often contains the word "rumors" and notes nothing has been confirmed.

SDSU Aztec wrote:

Come on. Something said by someone's attorney is not necessarily a fact.

Excellent! Now apply that kind of reasoning to the statements made by school officials and the prosecutor.

SDSU Aztec wrote:

The article often contains the word "rumors" and notes nothing has been confirmed.

Nobody knew for sure exactly what would happen. However, it's a verifiable fact that many students stayed home that day because they were worried about a huge violent event.

Bound4Glory wrote:

SDSU Aztec wrote:

Your last sentence just sounds like a typical conspiracy theory nonsense.

Oh boy. Maybe you're just not ready, grasshopper.

Again, it's a fact that Ethan was allowed to return to class. It will come down to whether it was negligent for the school to do so and more specifically should they have checked his bag. There is no way to cover that up.

Bound4Glory wrote:

bugattiaron wrote:

They then allowed him unrestricted access to it, disregarding the fact that that's illegal.

You are lying. The gun was locked up. Ethan stole it.

Investigators have already confirmed the gun was kept with its ammunition in an unlocked drawer in an unlocked room. Ethan had unrestricted access to the gun. He was able to take it without the parents being even remotely aware that it was gone.

If my kids stayed home from high school because of concerns over violence there would be a record of an email to the school made within 5 minutes of my family making that decision. I suspect I am more like other parents than unlike them. I also would have called the school and at the very least talked with half a dozen other parents about it.

So let's see where these rumors go. There should be factual evidence.

Actually, the numbers on my side here. According to a dataset analysis by Washington Post, white perpetrators of mass shootings have a greater likelihood to commit suicide before being apprehended by police, but the number of white shooters taken alive by police was about double that of shooters of color taken alive by police. The Post also noted that shootings with white perpetrators are very often covered more intensively than the mainstream media.

And no, I did not say that police shootings of black people are not covered by the media. I said that shootings committed by people of color are not covered as thoroughly as shootings by white people, and this is backed up by Washington Post.

You are completely intellectually dishonest and you seem to have an obsession with feebly trying to invalidate other people's arguments without actually backing up any argument of your own.

FoulPlay wrote:

If my kids stayed home from high school because of concerns over violence there would be a record of an email to the school made within 5 minutes of my family making that decision

The parents of one of the victims filed a lawsuit today. There are multiple instance of parents voicing their concerns about Ethan and violence. The School Principle and Superintendent are both on record dismissing them. The shooting was not a total surprise. It's also becoming clear why School Officials denied the state Attorney General's request to investigate the matter. They have a lot to hide and they need time to get their bogus story straight.

Bound4Glory wrote:

SDSU Aztec wrote:

Come on. Something said by someone's attorney is not necessarily a fact.

Excellent! Now apply that kind of reasoning to the statements made by school officials and the prosecutor.

If a defendant's attorney misstates something in public, it's a non-story if proven false. A D.A. has to be far more cautious about any accusations made publicly.

bugattiaron wrote:

Investigators have already confirmed the gun was kept with its ammunition in an unlocked drawer in an unlocked room. Ethan had unrestricted access to the gun.

Show us the reference.

SDSU Aztec wrote:

If a defendant's attorney misstates something in public, it's a non-story if proven false. A D.A. has to be far more cautious about any accusations made publicly.

Sadly, this is not at all true. It's not true anywhere in the world. That's why we have trials, and impartial juries, and rules of evidence, etc etc etc. It's all because we cannot trust prosecutors.

Bound4Glory wrote:

Latest news: This is what Ethan posted on social media the night before the shootings:

"Now I am become Death, the destroyer of worlds. See you tomorrow Oxford."

Several parents voiced concerns about Ethan to the principle of the school before the shootings. Nothing happened.

You will never find a clearer case the school be completely negligent, covering up their own incompetence, and then putting blame on someone else. You don't have to believe it. You can begin thinking for yourself. You can begin today.

So again in your world the school has a greater responsibility then the parents? The kid post threats out of school hours away from school property.

Yes the school demonstrated incompetence but still no concern about the kids parents?

Truly amazing.

What other areas of society are you willing to pass responsibility over to the govt?

Surely if the timing were different you would support the govt deciding to 'commit' a child demonstrating all these obvious signs correct? Even if the parents choose not to corporate?

Bound4Glory wrote:

FoulPlay wrote:

If my kids stayed home from high school because of concerns over violence there would be a record of an email to the school made within 5 minutes of my family making that decision

The parents of one of the victims filed a lawsuit today. There are multiple instance of parents voicing their concerns about Ethan and violence. The School Principle and Superintendent are both on record dismissing them. The shooting was not a total surprise. It's also becoming clear why School Officials denied the state Attorney General's request to investigate the matter. They have a lot to hide and they need time to get their bogus story straight.

Where are your links to evidence of the facts parents would need to succeed with litigation?

Bound4Glory wrote:

SDSU Aztec wrote:

If a defendant's attorney misstates something in public, it's a non-story if proven false. A D.A. has to be far more cautious about any accusations made publicly.

Sadly, this is not at all true. It's not true anywhere in the world. That's why we have trials, and impartial juries, and rules of evidence, etc etc etc. It's all because we cannot trust prosecutors.

The Crumley's house has undoubtedly been searched. If the police found a broken lock on some drawer or container, they would have said so. Or do you believe the police are in on the conspiracy as well?

The D.A. said the school officials had the legal right to check the kid's bag and locker. They might already be in a position to lose a lawsuit and if someone informed them of a gun being purchased by the parents, that could clinch it.

SDSU Aztec wrote:

If the police found a broken lock on some drawer or container, they would have said so. Or do you believe the police are in on the conspiracy as well?

In general, the police only volunteer information when it helps their case. Not when it hurts their case.

RedditisBetter wrote:

What other areas of society are you willing to pass responsibility over to the govt?

I'm very uncomfortable with the idea of imprisoning someone because they failed to predict a crime. That's true whether it's the parents or the school or anyone. But in this case, since the school has so eagerly, and so disingenuously blamed the parents, screw it. Go after the school officials. That's how I feel.

Bound4Glory wrote:

SDSU Aztec wrote:

If the police found a broken lock on some drawer or container, they would have said so. Or do you believe the police are in on the conspiracy as well?

In general, the police only volunteer information when it helps their case. Not when it hurts their case.

That is not logical at all. If the police found evidence that confirmed that the gun was secured, that's exactly what they would tell the D.A. It's the D.A.'s case and not theirs, so they have no motivation to lie. For all we know, they might be sympathetic towards the parents.