Newbury Park - is it the coach or the kids?

mister chau wrote:

2019 freshman class XC 3 mike PR’s

14:37

14:58

15:24

15:35

15:49

2021 freshman class XC 3 mile PR’s

16:27

17:38

19:00

21:41

22:47

Same coach, same courses, so what changed? Why isn’t this year’s class as good as the 2019 class? Do they just not believe they can run as fast? Isn’t it all coaching and just making kids believe?

It’ll be interesting to see if he can take this year’s freshman to the level of the 2019 freshman class.

Worthless post to be honest. It’s a combination of talent and coaching.

I don’t know. In this case, it looks like the kids are doing the heavy lifting. Why wasn’t the coach able to get this year’s freshman class in the same stratosphere as the ‘19 freshman class? The sophomore class is looking a bit thin as well.

fatboy slim wrote:

mister chau wrote:

2019 freshman class XC 3 mike PR’s

14:37

14:58

15:24

15:35

15:49

2021 freshman class XC 3 mile PR’s

16:27

17:38

19:00

21:41

22:47

Same coach, same courses, so what changed? Why isn’t this year’s class as good as the 2019 class? Do they just not believe they can run as fast? Isn’t it all coaching and just making kids believe?

It’ll be interesting to see if he can take this year’s freshman to the level of the 2019 freshman class.

Worthless post to be honest. It’s a combination of talent and coaching.

^

Does anybody know if there are any talented kids from the feeder programs that will come to NP in the next 2 years?

kjhyyghh wrote:

Does anybody know if there are any talented kids from the feeder programs that will come to NP in the next 2 years?

The feeder programs are all of Southern California. They better hope there is some other siblings coming along because based on that freshman class, ouch!

When anyone is THAT young, as in a High School freshman, it's 95++++% talent if not more.

It's nothing against the coach, but he's not the only HS Coach in America having runners do the type of training that they do---he's just got the talent to have the better times.

No one runs that fast without being extremely gifted in long distance running, no one.

NOT a diss on the coach, but if he took 7 freshman guys on an average team in this country, he would NOT have end results like he does now...zero chance of that.

My high school coach was a State Champion when he ran in High School and he could not get 7 better than average freshman to produce results like that by their sophomore year let alone senior year! It's talent people.

All the above + demographics

NP has a good coach. He know how’s train. He knows the importance of the “little things” like recovery, injury prevention, and sports psychology. He’s also built the program over years to draw talent. Success breads success.

NP also currently has hit the talent jackpot. Sets of twins with amazing talent. And one set has a brother that already ran on this level. They got to learn a lot.

NP is a a big rich suburban school in California. They can go for a month long summer altitude camp. In contrast my summers were spent doing manual labor in my crappy town. I was trying to help my parents pay the bills. This programs rich kids don’t have to deal with that. They can act like pro runners all summer long.

It’s both. I don’t think other coaches would have pushed that group to where they are now, but he’s definitely not going to get a 22 minute 5k kid to 13:38. This post should pretty much read “I’m jealous of Newbury Park” because that’s all I’m reading. I don’t really like the coach as a person but I would never try to take away from him what is truly a historic achievement.

Free Bird wrote:

All the above + demographics

NP has a good coach. He know how’s train. He knows the importance of the “little things” like recovery, injury prevention, and sports psychology. He’s also built the program over years to draw talent. Success breads success.

NP also currently has hit the talent jackpot. Sets of twins with amazing talent. And one set has a brother that already ran on this level. They got to learn a lot.

NP is a a big rich suburban school in California. They can go for a month long summer altitude camp. In contrast my summers were spent doing manual labor in my crappy town. I was trying to help my parents pay the bills. This programs rich kids don’t have to deal with that. They can act like pro runners all summer long.

It doesn't matter what you did with manual labor. If his top 7 runners did the same schedule you did in the Summer, heck even if they lived in the basement of your actual house, they would still run fast!

How many seconds do you gain in a 5k race by spending a summer month in altitude camp isn't going to change much.

I know dozens of runners where I live in the Midwest who went to Colorado in High School to train at high altitude for a month in the Summer. None of them were within a minute of where their 5th runner is on NP. They ate well, trained smart, got plenty of rest, etc...

It's talent.

top 5 wrote:

It’s both. I don’t think other coaches would have pushed that group to where they are now, but he’s definitely not going to get a 22 minute 5k kid to 13:38. This post should pretty much read “I’m jealous of Newbury Park” because that’s all I’m reading. I don’t really like the coach as a person but I would never try to take away from him what is truly a historic achievement.

That’s the point, is it taking away from. “him” or the kids? If he gets the 2021 class to any thing even close that level, it’s him. If not, it’s the kids. Look again at that freshman class from 2019. You’d have to be an idiot to screw that up!

Yep.

Anyone who knows anything is going to say it is both. The team is the best in American history in large part because they hit the genetic Powerball. But a lot of coaches would have screwed this up. It does take good coaching to get thoroughbreds to win races and avoid injury, and it is particularly challenging to get seven studs to perform at their best at the same time, when it matters most.

But if/when they drop off it isn't fair to say that the coach was overrated or whatever. Nobody has ever had a team like this and in our lifetimes it is likely that no one else ever will. How can he be expected to keep this level of success rolling along?

When I think of great coaches at the high school level, I look to the people who ride the ups and downs of the talent waves and always produce teams that are top ten in their state over decades, like Don Sleeman in his 50 years at Ann Arbor Pioneer. Nobody can be expected to win every year, but if you can turn 19:00 freshman guys into 16:30 or 16:00 senior guys like clockwork, that is pretty impressive.

mister chau wrote:

top 5 wrote:

It’s both. I don’t think other coaches would have pushed that group to where they are now, but he’s definitely not going to get a 22 minute 5k kid to 13:38. This post should pretty much read “I’m jealous of Newbury Park” because that’s all I’m reading. I don’t really like the coach as a person but I would never try to take away from him what is truly a historic achievement.

That’s the point, is it taking away from. “him” or the kids? If he gets the 2021 class to any thing even close that level, it’s him. If not, it’s the kids. Look again at that freshman class from 2019. You’d have to be an idiot to screw that up!

That’s why it’s both. Do you think just any coach would have taken even that talented class and get them to run some of the fastest times any high schooler has ever run? I don’t think so. Sure they would have been fast, even state champions, but I don’t think we would be seeing 4 kids under 14 for 3 miles from many other coaches.

And I think Brosnan is a douche quack for the most part. I just think it takes a charismatic douche quack to create the type of program that he did.

He's a great coach but I wish he'd be a bit more humble or at least phrased this differently.

"No reason I can't have 4 guys under 8:30"

I?? Not we?

Definitely a Big amount of BOTH!

Great Coach and Great Kids!!

The Coach can have a major impact on kids and talented kids can make a coach look very good.

But no coach, no matter how good, can spin yarn into gold.

14:xx guys are born. You can't coach a 17:XX guy to 14:xx unless he is a 14:xx talent already.

It's 100 percent the athletes, not the coach. Just about any coach could have gotten this group to run the same times. They are that talented.

Having such a poor freshman class in 2021 is a sign that Brosnan is full of crap. People say he's charismatic but where's the charisma in getting kids to come out for the team?

He literally has the best team in high school history but he still can't get kids to quit soccer for cross country. Pathetic that he can't build off of this to be decent when the genetic lottery graduates.

Ghost of Ward Cleaver wrote:

Definitely a Big amount of BOTH!

Great Coach and Great Kids!!

The Coach can have a major impact on kids and talented kids can make a coach look very good.

False. Read my post again, which I know you've already done at least once. "Big amount of BOTH!" Totally false, you've lost any and all credibility as knowing even the least bit of smarts on distance running. Please, stay on the sidelines ole fella.

KnotRocketSciencePeople wrote:

Ghost of Ward Cleaver wrote:

Definitely a Big amount of BOTH!

Great Coach and Great Kids!!

The Coach can have a major impact on kids and talented kids can make a coach look very good.

False. Read my post again, which I know you've already done at least once. "Big amount of BOTH!" Totally false, you've lost any and all credibility as knowing even the least bit of smarts on distance running. Please, stay on the sidelines ole fella.

My opinion is false? Why did you think I was responding to you?