New coach Bernard Lagat goes home DEVASTATED as Arizona men DNF and women rack up 343 points at PAC12s

DSSM wrote:

SDSU Aztec wrote:

You don't seem to like Lagat which is fine but some blue chip HS runners will be impressed by his accomplishments and want to run for him, especially if the kid likes his personality.

You don't know what Lagat is like as a coach. If a good recruit tells Lagat he wants to run 80 mpw, that's exactly what he will run at U.A. Lagat isn't going to say no and bring in another 10:00 guy instead.

Some of you guys place so much importance on coaching, but 100% of success is going to come from having talented runners.

you are so wrong. The coach makes the team. It starts from the top.

How can Lagat motivate these guys? They're in over their heads, so it doesn't matter if they break 26:00. They're still going to be near the back in any race. Maybe he's asked them to run 5 miles in the morning but they don't and they also skip the Sunday long run.

just goes to show you very talented athletes make terrible coaches. What worked for them likely doesn't work for 95% of other people who are not nearly as gifted. Coaches who were average athletes, worked their butt off, tinkered with training ideas, and learned from multiple coaches tend to be better coaches.

A couple of comments:

1) To the person talking about grabbing club runners to be on the team: Most people who run club in college do so because they don't want to be on a varsity team, with the time commitment. Asking them to run will fail.

2) I don't think I've seen one person ask or comment on the possibility that there were outside factors, such as illness.

fhdhfghdfhg wrote:

just goes to show you very talented athletes make terrible coaches. What worked for them likely doesn't work for 95% of other people who are not nearly as gifted. Coaches who were average athletes, worked their butt off, tinkered with training ideas, and learned from multiple coaches tend to be better coaches.

How do you know that Lagat will be a terrible coach if he's able to recruit some 9:00 guys? From a D-1 perspective, he's coaching fun runners and it's not a given that he prescribes the same training as he did. I assume any potential blue chip recruit will discuss Lagat's training philosophy with him and will go somewhere else if he doesn't like it.

Dellinger Schumacher, Salazar and Ritz were hardly average athletes and Mike Smith managed a 14:10.

How do you tinker with training ideas? There is a wide range of workouts that will result in a runner reaching his potential. Why would your average runner turned coach have learned from multiple coaches while an elite runner didn't.

Perfect example of the phrase " some do, some teach.." Because you were great, does not mean you would be a great or even good teacher/coach.

The opposite would be true as well.

fire on the mountain wrote:

It starts and stops with the coach. Period.

If you are in charge it’s on you. Period.

By the way, Colorado wins yet again. Both men and women. And with lower ranked recruits than many of the other schools.

I'm sorry, is this a thread about Colorado?

Absolutely correct!

There's a lot of banter on these boards from people who believe being a good/great runner does not translate into being a good/great coach. There is some truth to this. That being said, it is the responsibility of the AD and or Director of X-C/Track and Field to make certain that if hiring a former world-class athlete to coach, they understand and can translate the fundamentals of training and racing for all levels of talent. If properly interviewed and thoroughly questioned as to the process of developing an athlete and team it will become evident if the candidate is the right choice. If you do in fact find someone who can check all the boxes with regard to success at the prep, collegiate, and professional levels, and understands the "process" both physically and mentally you've hit a home run. Take, for example, Ed Eyestone at BYU, and Chris Fox when at Syracuse. Many former world-class athletes can't tell you how they became great or what the process was that allowed them to achieve success. They just did what the coach told them to do without knowing why. There are some former world-class athletes who want to coach, and they do understand the "process", but never get the chance due to a lack of "coaching" experience (using a stopwatch, setting up cones at home meets, etc..) on their resume. All it takes is a complete and thorough interview and it will be evident if they can coach or not. Unfortunately, Bernard is not one of those above-mentioned "Home Runs". His former coach James Li was good for him and a few very talented self-motivated Kenyans, but that was it. He is a very good friend of Fred Harvey, and that's why he was hired and allowed to stay in Arizona for as long as he did with very little success and thus hand off the program to Bernard.

It is Bernard's first season as head coach, and he deserves more time to develop the program, but IMHO it's not gonna work unless he brings in a boat-load of Kenyans and abandons domestic kids.

Wetmore has altitude. Put him at sea level and cut his distance scholarships down to that of a balanced program and how magic is his work?

Legat is a big name. AZ hired a big name, not a big coach. Why is this thread even a thing? Who here is legit surprised?

It's Arizona not Arizona State... Arizona is awful at everything. Their football team has the longest losing streak in college football and their basketball coach is in jail for paying players.

The place is a cesspool!

Nope, he didn't go home DEVASTED. They interviewed him on the local news network and he said he was very thrilled and happy with the way his athletes competed. This is far from DEVASTATED! In fact its the exact opposite.

He seems like a nice guy, likes his runners and doesn't have expectations for them. They are happy to be on the team and receive free travel, but it's unlikely they are going to be motivated to train particularly hard.

I'll be getting a good laugh in three/four years (maybe just two) when Lagat's deep and direct connections to Kenya AND Nike have opened up a steady stream of (faster than 99% of any US talent) recruits coming to UA. Oregon AND UA will be snatching up the talent from Kenya soon enough.

COVID related travel restrictions are slowing the move, but I'm sure the conversations and recruiting are already flowing like a raging storm.

Wait for it...

Only because you were a great athlete doesn't make you a great coach. Look at Larry Bird!

You better believe that coaches at schools in the PAC12 and West Region are plenty happy that Bernie Lagat is coach at UA. The Chaplin-Li lineage doesn't have a track record that keeps rivals up at night.

[quote]doc101 wrote:

Only because you were a great athlete doesn't make you a great coach. Look at Larry Bird![/

What are you talking about? He only coached for three seasons and took the Pacer to the Finals in his last year of coaching. He was a great coach!

jlmof wrote:

Has he asked for a B sample to be considered?

so much this

I don't know what you're talking about.... you don't specify which schools in 'P5' don't have track facilities on campus. I've been to most, and while most athletic facilities tend to be on the edge of campus, they're not OFF campus. Drachman is off campus. UW, WSU, UCLA, USC, OSU, UO and ASU all have on campus facilities. Sure, some campus' sprawl so distance wise, they're further from 'the center' of campus than Drachman.

Having been to Tucson, Drachman is in an entirely different neighborhood than campus. You do not have campus security and there's plenty of traffic independent of how the athletes travel to the stadium. Very different than the other urban campus'.

What would you expect he would say to local news? "My program is a disaster, Athletics here is so hosed...."?