Who was John McDonnell's best 5th man? Did John McDonnell ever have a 29:04 5th man?

The 1981 UTEP team that finished with 17 points had 3 runners finish 1-2-3. The other two runners who finished 7th and 8th (all ahead of Arkansas' first runner, David Taylor, were Gidamis Shahanga, a 2:08 marathoner, and Suleiman Nyambui, who broke the world indoor record for 5,000 and ended up with a 13:12 PB.

I think Nyambui was the existing world indoor recordholder when he ran the 1981 NCAAs.

There were so many guys at such a high level that places 3-9 changed constantly. To my recollection, most of these guys were a Hogg 5th man at some point. My memory is quickly fading. Maybe some of the younger guys can help us out here.

Welch (jr year?)- 29:00?

Dressel (sr year?)- 29:15

Coop- 8:35 3kst

Sandfort- 28:38

Borge -29:30

Hanley (soph year?)- 28:45?

Kerr-3:40/3:58?

I would think that Arkansas has had many teams with a 5th man faster than 29:00.

The 1993 team had Michael Morin as the 5th guy (3:39) . Dude was 11th in 1992 XC Not sure if he ever ran a 10k on the track. Nial Burton in 1992 is another guy who clearly was a 29min guy but I am not sure he raced one. In 1991, Frank Hanley was their 6th man. He was 2nd in the 10k outdoors in 1992 and ran 2914 in the championship outdoors.

Those early 90s teams were nuts...

fkkfkfkfkf wrote:

The 1993 team had Michael Morin as the 5th guy (3:39) . Dude was 11th in 1992 XC Not sure if he ever ran a 10k on the track. Nial Burton in 1992 is another guy who clearly was a 29min guy but I am not sure he raced one. In 1991, Frank Hanley was their 6th man. He was 2nd in the 10k outdoors in 1992 and ran 2914 in the championship outdoors.

Those early 90s teams were nuts...

Good post. Do any current Hogs post here? I’m curious to know if the original flat indoor track is used at all anymore? Do the teams use the trails? How about any of the old loops? Mile repeats on the old golf course?

Sally Vixxxxxxxxens wrote:

The 1981 UTEP team that finished with 17 points had 3 runners finish 1-2-3. The other two runners who finished 7th and 8th (all ahead of Arkansas' first runner, David Taylor, were Gidamis Shahanga, a 2:08 marathoner, and Suleiman Nyambui, who broke the world indoor record for 5,000 and ended up with a 13:12 PB.

This was the first thought that came to my mind.

In an interview once guy asked Coach “ what have all your top athletes had in common”

His response was “at least 8 hours of sleep a night”

And yeah what malmo said

Ah this is bringing me back. I was an athlete at Arkansas—not track and field—and was just reminiscing about the 2002 NCAA Indoor Championships. As an athlete I was able to spectate very close to the action and saw so many soon to be big names perform at the newly renovated Tyson Center. I remember Coach McDonnell having a special relationship with Alistair Cragg and the latter’s win causing so much emotion between the two. The saddest thing about it all was seeing David Kimani perform at such a high level and then hearing from my friends of his passing the next year. How tragic.

fkkfkfkfkf wrote:

The 1993 team had Michael Morin as the 5th guy (3:39) . Dude was 11th in 1992 XC Not sure if he ever ran a 10k on the track. Nial Burton in 1992 is another guy who clearly was a 29min guy but I am not sure he raced one. In 1991, Frank Hanley was their 6th man. He was 2nd in the 10k outdoors in 1992 and ran 2914 in the championship outdoors.

Those early 90s teams were nuts...

Niall Bruton finished 2nd and 3rd at the NCAA’s in XC. That’s doesn’t make him Arkansas’ fifth man.

RichardRider wrote:

Sally Vixxxxxxxxens wrote:

The 1981 UTEP team that finished with 17 points had 3 runners finish 1-2-3. The other two runners who finished 7th and 8th (all ahead of Arkansas' first runner, David Taylor, were Gidamis Shahanga, a 2:08 marathoner, and Suleiman Nyambui, who broke the world indoor record for 5,000 and ended up with a 13:12 PB.

This was the first thought that came to my mind.

The thread is titled "Who was John McDonnell's best 5th man? Did John McDonnell ever have a 29:04 5th man?"

So UTEP is the first thing that comes to mind?

I was Arkansas’ best 5th man.

5th in 87.

Ran 3:35 that spring.

Thing was both Coop and Taylor has bad races, so I should have been 7th man.

We beat up on old Vinny boy.’s team that year.

had to be a Canadian - Link? Kerr? Consiglio?

Sorry, Doug, your 3:35 doesn't make you a great 5th man in cross. You were no 29-flat 10k guy as far as I recall. And "beating" up on an Ivy League team with no athletic scholarships isn't exactly something to brag about from a program like Arkansas.

1991premilechamp wrote:

I was Arkansas’ best 5th man.

5th in 87.

Ran 3:35 that spring.

Thing was both Coop and Taylor has bad races, so I should have been 7th man.

We beat up on old Vinny boy.’s team that year.

1991premilechamp wrote:

I was Arkansas’ best 5th man.

5th in 87.

Ran 3:35 that spring.

Thing was both Coop and Taylor had bad races, so I should have been 7th man.

We beat up on old Vinny boy’s team that year.

Consig!

I was mentioned earlier, but I can't claim a best 5th man position. I was a #2, #4, and a #1.

Update. I spent a lot of time trying to figure out who the 5th men were on all of the NCAA xc title teams for McDonnell. Here is what I came up with. It's now published in the WTW. Please let me know if I made a mistake. It’s a very hard to compare as the McDonnell Hogs had a ton of mid-d stars who stepped it up in xc.

rojo wrote:

Arkansas’ 5th Men On Their NCAA XC Title Teams Under John McDonnell

1984 – Gary Taylor – 3:39 1500 runner

1986 – Chris Zinn – ??? – Was top 10 in xc in both 87 and 88.

1987 – Doug Consiglio – 3:38? ran 3:35 in 1988.

1990 – Nial Bruton – 3:47 1500. Would run 3:35 (1995)

1991 – Eric Henry – 3:59 mile

1992 – Niall Burton – 3:41 1500. Would run 3:35 (1995)

1993 – Michael Morin – 3:39

1995 – Matthew Kerr – I imagine the freshman’s pbs wern’t great but he’d eventually run 13:32 (2003) and 8:20 in steeple (2005)

1998 – Adam Dailey – 8:06/29:46? Ran 28:34 in 2000.

1999 – Matt Kerr – 3:41/7:53/8:32 st, would run 13:32 in 2003.

2000 – Ryan Travis – 3:41/3:59/7:56

malmo wrote:

RichardRider wrote:

This was the first thought that came to my mind.

The thread is titled "Who was John McDonnell's best 5th man? Did John McDonnell ever have a 29:04 5th man?"

So UTEP is the first thing that comes to mind?

Mr obvious, it was a troll retort to the other person who brought up UTEP.

huh?? wrote:

fkkfkfkfkf wrote:

The 1993 team had Michael Morin as the 5th guy (3:39) . Dude was 11th in 1992 XC Not sure if he ever ran a 10k on the track. Nial Burton in 1992 is another guy who clearly was a 29min guy but I am not sure he raced one. In 1991, Frank Hanley was their 6th man. He was 2nd in the 10k outdoors in 1992 and ran 2914 in the championship outdoors.

Those early 90s teams were nuts...

Niall Bruton finished 2nd and 3rd at the NCAA’s in XC. That’s doesn’t make him Arkansas’ fifth man.

Finishing 5th for your team at nationals doesn't make you the 5th man? What definition are you using? Again I don't know if he every ran a 10k on the track but there is zero doubt he was a 29 min guy.

That’s the challenge of this question. “Best 5th man” refers to XC, which is time irrelevant. There’s lots of solid XC runners that are slower in comparison to competition in the track. The only one who can give you a solid answer is McDonnell himself. Unless he’s been quoted on this we will likely never know.