How much does endurance matter for breaking 2 in the 800m?

I'll be the first to ask for the group: What is your 200 and 400 times? The 400 time is particularly important for assessing 800 potential, which somewhat answers your question. Also, the overuse injuries may be a tell.

This, from an oldster who regrets trying to push endurance over speed to compete beyond 1600m. As I've aged, I have actually dropped back down from 5K-10K range, to race almost exclusively at distances between 200m and the mile.

Like the other dude said, depends A LOT on your 400/springtspeed. When I was in high school, I ran 17:50 on a short course, probably worth 18:30 or something. I had 51 low speed in the open. I was definitely a 4/8 guy, and most of my work was on the track or doing hills. I ran 1:59 a few times. When I got to college and started doing any sort of "mileage" and running significantly faster for 5k (still not fast though) my 800 times dropped dramatically. Meanwhile, my 400 barely got faster. 50.0 in a hand timed trial in practice once.

If you and your coach think you can make significant improvements in sprint speed, then go for it. The odds are a little stacked against you, as most sprinter types have realized they've got wheels by this age, but it's not unheard of. Can you jump high? Are your high knees and skips super crispy and sharp? Can you do a good, deep, heavy squat? Were you one of the faster kids on the playground? These are all signs, but not total guarantees, that you could be a serious 400/800 runner. Otherwise, the answer is mostly mileage and aerobic strength.

Please define your "mileage'.

FartKing69 wrote:

Can you do a good, deep, heavy squat?

Huh? Not sure how this applies to running speed.

Biomechanics Guy wrote:

FartKing69 wrote:

Can you do a good, deep, heavy squat?

Huh? Not sure how this applies to running speed.

Block starts and acceleration.

You technically don’t need any 5k ability. If you’re a 4/8 guy. You can essentially do very hard speed workouts with a couple 3 mile easy days.

I’ve seen people run ~ 20 miles per week and run 1:45. But they were splitting 46r.

Sorry for the late response, I did a 57ish as the first leg of a 4x4 after my mile pr race. Also as for 200 i never raced it either, my memory might be wrong but I got 27 in 200 reps once, could probably bring that down in an actual 200.

I was sub 2:00 in High School and NEVER rand below 19:00 in the 5K. I didn't run much mileage and ran 52 seconds around the track without any training previous track and field training. Not quite fast enough to be great in the 400m, but enough to be okay in the 800m.

Now in my 30s I am the opposite. I can easily run 100 miles a week and run 3x3 miles @ 19:00 but the wheels fall off if I try to go under 5:00 min/mile for any amount of time. Maybe I need to dedicate a season to sprinting bio-mechanics.

Sub2in22 wrote:

Sorry for the late response, I did a 57ish as the first leg of a 4x4 after my mile pr race. Also as for 200 i never raced it either, my memory might be wrong but I got 27 in 200 reps once, could probably bring that down in an actual 200.

57is a bit slow for running sub 2 right now, but if this was an effort without any serious speed training, maybe you could run a sub 55 which would make sub 2 possible.

If you want to give it a shot and see what you are capable of, in general you should gradually drop the mileage for a few months and switch to quality work. Unfortunately, the 800 is complicated and a lot of the training will depend on what type of runner you are: what are your strengths and weaknesses and how you respond to different kind of workouts. For this reason, you'll hear stories of people that dropped their 800 time by upping the mileage and people that improved by dropping it to 20 miles/week. I'd recommend you make a plan with your high school coach and revise it often depending on how your training goes. Make sure to race at least 2-3 times before your goal race, running a good 800 requires practice.

yeah, work on your sprinting speed only to improve the 800, 2x400+8 is a good calculation. I ran 1:53 in hs with 0 distance running, thats 0 distance miles. Ran only during 10 week track season, did 800m warmup+track workouts only. But ran 48.6-49.2 in the 400.

There's a good chance you might be less of a "400/800" guy and just undertrained

XC is endurance season so pull that down, in the winter keep some strength work in while introducing speed. You should never leave speed behind the whole year.

To add on, people who will say "I added mileage and didn't improve" forget to actually put speed in

Once every two weeks try and get a few 10-20 sec hill reps in with full recovery

I also like to tack on 2x3x200 going. slow-medium fast x2

For you this time of year I might expect 36-34-32 and by winter It could be 34-32-30 etc, that's what I mean by never getting away from speed.

You're exactly wrong about your own strengths. I'd ID you as a miler with strong upside in the 3200 and above. You can still run well in the 800 I'm sure, but I think your true promise will lay in the 1600 as you get stronger.

If you're 16 and you've only run 57 and 27, you're definitely not looking like a 400/800 guy. More mileage, while not ignoring pure speed work, is most likely the way. Keep up with plyos and lifting. Try to do a "pure speed" session once every week or two, tons of skipping, bounding, jumping, and short sprints. Not a replacement for a workout, it should feel more like a strength training session than a hard running session.

Yeah ig I’m going to have a lot less time than most 4/8 guys. I can jump somewhat high after I think, I’m not entirely sure how my skips are like however. However I do have a good deep heavy squat compared to most track runners, my best set was 6 reps at 175. I was one of the slowest in the playground. Not really because of my top speed, but I had no aerobic capacity. When I actually measured my capacity for using oxygen (I think it vO2–might be wrong) my teacher looked surprised at how low it was, not a medical condition but it was definitely not a normal amount. So I’m not sure if that still affects me even now.

Yeah that 400 was very half assed. I just wanted to be done running for the night.

Easy answer: Endurance matters very little in the 800. Speed based event and while strength won't hurt you, if you don't have the natural speed to burn a fast 400, you're not going to fare very well when you double the distance.

Really? I don’t doubt that but I keep hearing that you need a good aerobic base etc.

Read the sub 1:50 thread and scale it down, people will tell you endurance doesn't matter, or run a loooot of miles a week.

You need a blend, and if you learn and research on here, especially from that thread you'll have a better grasp.