The K wrote:
Thank you
To add, GPS requires only 'listening' to signals from the satellites. You can have a GPS watch and nobody knows you are using it.
The K wrote:
Thank you
To add, GPS requires only 'listening' to signals from the satellites. You can have a GPS watch and nobody knows you are using it.
Man this is sad. But can we stop with the f-ing stupid takes like "what's so crazy about 6min/mile", "106 isn't that hot" - I mean a guy lost his life and it was because of heat exhaustion.
Can we just all agree that running in 100 degree + weather just isn't worth the risk no matter how fit or good you think you are? It's so simple.
He wasn’t running sub 6-the article says at times pace went below 6. But as someone else said, that park is hilly and paces need context. Hills can make a 8:30 mile worth 5:30. And 6 downhill can be really easy. I do a run in the Bay Area where the first mile uphill is 11:00 uphill and the same mile downhill at the end is 6:30. The 6:30 is easy.
The story is just scary. He was very fit and the run was no big deal for him. It was hot but not insane. But he got in trouble quickly. He probably was very used to running in pain bc he was a strong runner. Probably all of us on this site have done runs that non-runners would call unsafe. RIP. You were one of us.
DontFeedTheTroll wrote:
That's a hell of a story, CrossFan. Glad you came out of it okay and (I hope) a little wiser.
Only enough wiser to not let that happen again. ;-)
I suspect that based on his "zig-zagging" pattern at the end of his run/walk, that he likely didn't even have the wherewithal/awareness to think of clicking the 'Save' button on his GPS.
So I've spent some time studying this case, and the particulars of the route, aided by news reports and details I've gleaned here and elsewhere about Kreycik's movements that day and where he was found. I will stress I have not seen the GPS results, so I could very well be wrong, as my theory hinges upon one assumption for which I don't have evidence, merely speculation.
Kreycik in 2019 created a route called the Short Pleasonton Loop, one which traveled Tehan Canyon Road to the trail access, and then on to the Main Ridge for a simple loop and then back the way he came. It is unclear to me if he actually ran this route before. The reports I've read say he hadn't, so this route may have been one he hoped to do, but didn't until July 2021.
As has been reported, he was found well north of that loop, and off the trail near Hedd Canyon. And there has been speculation as to how/why he ended up there, so far off his planned route. Of course his state of mind could have impacted his decision making. But I think there may be a complicating factor as well, and it depends on one assumption. If he ran the planned loop clockwise, he would've encountered the spur for the north ridge trail (the one he eventually took) prior to the turn that would have taken him back to his starting point. These turns are very similar, and if he hadn't known about the north spur, he may have taken it thinking he was on his correct route.
To further complicate things, even if he had known about that spur, he may have been mislead by the trail map, which implies that trail dead-ends, when it really does not, merely going off park property onto private property. If he was going by the map, he may have assumed that a wrong turn would've taken him to a dead end in a short distance, and he would've realized he'd taken the wrong turn. And when he didn't encounter that dead end, he may then have thought he was in fact on the correct trail, but by the time he realized he wasn't where he should've been, he was too far to turn around. That trail also has a cattle gate along the way, which he apparently climbed over to continue on his way. It may be he thought it would lead to a house or something, and that it was a private drive.
The real tragedy is, if he had had water or been able to go a bit further in any direction east, west or north, he would've reached either a road, private home or neighborhoods. He was surrounded by civilization. He just was not prepared.
Harambe wrote:
To add, GPS requires only 'listening' to signals from the satellites. You can have a GPS watch and nobody knows you are using it.
This was explained at length in the original thread. It is quite surprising to me how little runners seem to know about how stuff works. If you have a wrist worn device with a sim card in it then you can transmit.
CrossFan wrote:
Don't know how many of us on here have experienced heat stroke, but to give you a first person account of how it goes, here you go.
Ran a 4th of July 10K road race in he 80's during a big midwest heat wave with extreme high humidity/dew point. At the time, I was a novice (i.e. stupid) at hydration, and didn't drink much at all ahead of time...trying to avoid side stitches, having to go to the bathroom, etc...
Went out hard from the beginning with no adjustment in pace for the heat/humidity. Most of the course was in full sun. No water on the course that I recall, though there may have been and I didn't want to slow down to take it (i.e. yes, I was very inexperienced/stupid/naive, as I said). I was definitely very hot, but thought I could "push through it". Approaching 5mi, I could see ahead that the 3rd place runner had stopped and walked to ask a spectator if they had water. I saw this as an opportunity to move up a spot and surged to catch/pass him. From that point on, I have no memory of the race.
Apparently I ran by my Dad at 5mi and looked okay. I completed a long loop that took me toward the finish line. Couple hundred yards away, my family saw me weaving back and forth erratically, stumbling, slowing as I approached the finish line. 30yds from the finish I stumbled off the side of the road and face planted in the sand (finish was at the beach). Convulsed/seizures/etc..eyes rolling in the back of my head...yup, all the classic signs.
The emergency medical vehicle was trailing the race, so no emergency personnel were around near the finish. Fortunately, a high school friend who had won the race rushed over to me and found some ice to put under the back of my neck and on my body, and poured cold water on me. They threw me in the back of a volunteer's statin wagon and rushed me to the hospital emergency. I briefly regained consciousness, which is my only memory between the 5mi point of the race and when I later woke up on the table inthe emergency room.
They got me in and immediately gave me an IV of electrolyte type solution. They recorded my body temp at 106 degrees. The doctor said he pumped a gallon into me, but my body was still overcompensating and sweating it out until my body temps cooled down closer to normal. Many strange things happened (including an "out-of-body type experience", among other things), but eventually I regained consciousness.
My point of telling this account it that I most certainly would have died had I not been attended to. Probably no coincidence that it was around 5mi (and just under 30min I think) when I was confused and have no memory at that point. Things just systematically shut down past a certain body temperature, and there is very little you can do to reverse the damage unless you get help from someone. He most certainly crossed that line.
Heat stroke is terrifying.
Crossfan, thanks for your story because it really illuminates what can happen under extreme circumstances. There have been times when I've run ten miles to work with a light backpack in the late morning or even early afternoon in Florida this summer with the temperature just in the low 90s but high humidity, dewpoint around 78 degrees, and a very, very harsh sun, and found myself struggling the last miles to make it until I hit some shade. When you run in the SF Bay Area, the sun is usually nowhere near as intense but this day was different. 106 degrees. It was still comfortable in the early morning and evening to run in June in the Bay Area when the temps were close to this but it's something else for people not used to it. On that terrain, it is very hilly, and I find myself running as slow as 12 minutes per mile or slower on some of the super steep, long uphills where walking is difficult. Then on the downhills that are a bit less steep than that, I am sometimes going under 5 minutes per mile (on the flatter terrain, when healthy, I would probably be going 7 minute pace or under most of the time). So, he was probably hammering on the downhills and going a good pace on the flatter terrain to try to get his mileage in when he could, given his family responsibilities, but then going a lot slower on the uphills. My sincere condolences to his family. This is a tough thing for his wife and kids, and we should be sympathetic and recognize that they are real people and no one meant to do this.
I’ll do a full analysis write up soon, working with a journalist for an in depth as well. The 2019 and 2021 routes didn’t play into this much: he ended up doing an out and back that went wrong.