no disrespect to the DSD runners. I feel for them. THey should do what they are allowed to do. BUt the rule makers MUST make a change for the integrity of women's athletics.
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no disrespect to the DSD runners. I feel for them. THey should do what they are allowed to do. BUt the rule makers MUST make a change for the integrity of women's athletics.
rojo toga wrote:
Who is the true world record holder over 800 meters?
Jelimo or Mu is my guess. The fact that Jelimo reportedly has a daughter suggests she is not intersex.
I think any eastern bloc/soviet time is suspect on doping grounds but that's just my opinion.
Sorry, maybe I wasn't clear with what I was trying to say.
I wasn't saying the rules were based on chromosomes. I was saying that the rules were made only for certain DSD conditions. My understanding is that these particular DSD conditions that the rules apply to, do not occur in people that are XX. Therefore any of the DSD athletes that are not allowed to compete in the mid distances cannot be XX.
It is also my understanding that a natural XX women would not be subject to the rules that would prevent them from running 400-mile, even if their testosterone is naturally high. Though I don't know if natural XX women can even have testosterone levels that reach the levels for the DSD rules to apply.
I say have her race Sha'carri Richardson.
Mmboma would likely blow Richardson away.
As we saw yesterday, Richardson has no problem being vocal. And I am quite certain that she would be extremely vocal about losing to Mmboma, and the reason(s) why,
I bet u not would talk trash to her face. She could easily strangle you to death with her legs.
Armstronglivs wrote:
Correction: DSD athlete with male levels of testosterone.
TechnoTrack wrote:
I say have her race Sha'carri Richardson.
Mmboma would likely blow Richardson away.
As we saw yesterday, Richardson has no problem being vocal. And I am quite certain that she would be extremely vocal about losing to Mmboma, and the reason(s) why,
Brilliant. Make the media and stupid fans choose between them.
Armstronglivs wrote:
We saw with Semenya how a DSD athlete could dominate a women's event. All 3 medallists on the 800m dais at Rio were intersex. 2 of the medallists - including the winner - of the 200m at Nairobi are intersex.
Mboma has the capacity to completely own women's sprints in the future. That is what intersex athletes are able to do in women's sports. They have an advantage no other women can match. Testes.
Caster dominated at a juncture where competition was weak. Never threatened the WR like Mu could potentially over the next decade.
The competition between ca. 2010 and 19 in the 800m women became weak because hardly anyone could compete with Semenya etc. and thus women who could ran 1500m instead.
Therefore 2019 was so weak with Semenya gone.
2020 was of course also different because of Covid but we saw immediately 1500m runners like Kipyegon, Reekie, Muir running quite strong times in the 800m and now in 2021 there are two teenagers running 1:55 and Kate Grace, who'd been an also ran in the 1500m for several years runs 1:57, all without Semenya as pacer until the end.
Aussiestatman wrote:
[quote]Armstronglivs wrote:
Caster dominated at a juncture where competition was weak. Never threatened the WR like Mu could potentially over the next decade.
A few points.
1. Caster was not far off on a few occasions and often seemed to be sandbagging rather than giving it everything approaching the finish.
2. The claims that competition was weak are difficult to evaluate. Doping crackdowns had a far greater impact on womens athletics than mens, imo. The number of times on the all-time athletics list of W800 peaked in the 80s and has declined every decade. The mens list however has seen an increase every decade though if the search is limited to the top 500 times, there was weird paucity of fast times in the 2000-2010 decade. 2010s had the same number of top 500 times as the 90s though.
The women 800m was always spiky. Typically, stars have not been able to hold top performance for more than one year
1976: Kazankina 1:54.96…. Then nothing
Jump to 1980
1980: Mineyeva 1:54.8 and Olizarenko 1:53.4… then nothing
Jump to 1982
1982: Melinte 1:55.0… then nothing
1983: jarmila 1:53.2… then nothing
Jump to 1989
1989: Quirot 1:54.4… but then again in 1997 1:54.8?? Then nothing until Jelimo showed up in 2008 for that one year as a junior (1:54,0)
Then we had to wait until 2018 (Caster 1:54.2), which she followed up in 2019 with 1:54.98
The early 80s were strong. We had a few glimpses with Quirot, Jelimo and Caster in the past 30 years.
It’s actually the first time in the last 35 years that the 800m void was filled so fast.
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eqdd31 wrote:
rojo toga wrote:
Who is the true world record holder over 800 meters?
Jelimo or Mu is my guess. The fact that Jelimo reportedly has a daughter suggests she is not intersex.
Jemima most definitely has never given birth. Someone started that rumor years ago, but it's not true.
Ghost1 wrote:
https://www.marca.com/en/olympic-games/2021/08/03/6109169fe2704ecd7f8b45b4.htmlSour grapes, or justified resentment? Polish sprinter vents his concern.
We know Ubas is not a woman but as to whether
he is any man at all,there are doubts.
Does anyone have the pdf of the 4x100 splits from Tokyo (Men and women)? The link I saved isn't working anymore.
Want to know what Elaine Thompson and SFP ran for their legs.
Sean B. wrote:
I wasn't saying the rules were based on chromosomes. I was saying that the rules were made only for certain DSD conditions. My understanding is that these particular DSD conditions that the rules apply to, do not occur in people that are XX. Therefore any of the DSD athletes that are not allowed to compete in the mid distances cannot be XX.
Correct, the testosterone limits are only for 46 XY DSD athletes and only for 400 - 1609 meters. There are no (natural) testo limits for anyone outside of that limited range and there are no limits for XX DSD or men or women over any distance:
https://www.tas-cas.org/fileadmin/user_upload/Media_Release_Semenya_ASA_IAAF_decision.pdfIn March/April 2018, the IAAF cancelled its “Hyperandrogenism Regulations”, which had been primarily challenged by the Indian athlete Dutee Chand, and replaced them with the DSD Regulations establishing new requirements governing the eligibility of women with DSD for the female classification in race events from 400m to 1 mile (the “Restricted Events”) at international athletics competitions. The DSD covered by the Regulations are limited to athletes with “46 XY DSD” – i.e. conditions where the affected individual has XY chromosomes. Accordingly, individuals with XX chromosomes are not subject to any restrictions or eligibility conditions under the DSD Regulations.
Even over 400 - 1609 meters, 46 XY DSD athletes may race with high testo, but that level is limited to 5 nmol/L, still well above normal female values:
Athletes with 46 XY DSD have testosterone levels well into the male range (7.7 to 29.4 nmol/L;
normal female range being below 2 nmol/L). The DSD Regulations require athletes with 46 XY DSD
with a natural testosterone level over 5 nmol/L, and who experience a “material androgenizing effect”
from that enhanced testosterone level, to reduce their natural testosterone level to below 5 nmol/L,
and to maintain that reduced level for a continuous period of at least six months in order to be eligible
to compete in a Restricted Event.
Note the six months rule, meaning they may train hard under their full normal testo levels (while racing 200 or 3000 m) until 6 months prior to racing 400/800/1500 m.
Long story short: in the interest of fair women's competition, this rule should be expanded to include all events.
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Armstronglivs wrote:
Correction: DSD athlete with male levels of testosterone.
🤪🤪😜😂😂😂