If Kipchoge wins in 11 days, he’ll dethrone K.B. as the G.O.A.T. distance runner

I see you are a fan of classifications.

However this world dosent like human (temporary, biased, sponsored) classifications.

It works with the law of "disorder":

- Kipchoge is a hype.

- Kenenisa Bekele was beaten two times by El G. and at his peak.

Dude, sorry, but KB will always be GOAT. Close second is Haile or Komen but certainly not Kipchoge.

What about KBs track and cross country accomplishments? He has Kipchoge beat there. Kipchoge is the GOAT marathon runner but I'd say KB is GOAT distance runner as he's had more success in track and CC than Kipchoge and still threw down some good marathon times.

What about Kipchoge's implosion at London, and the weird thing he ran on the airport runways a few months back? The dude hasn't run anything decent since the Ineos 1:59 thing, and nothing non-assisted in what, three years?

This is Jim Kiler wrote:

What about Kipchoge's implosion at London, and the weird thing he ran on the airport runways a few months back? The dude hasn't run anything decent since the Ineos 1:59 thing, and nothing non-assisted in what, three years?

He won London in 2:02:37 27 months ago.

Wait, what happened to cheptigue? Why is he not going to the Olympics?

matterwatter wrote:

Wait, what happened to cheptigue? Why is he not going to the Olympics?

I can see the confusion - I meant Bekele will not be competing in these Olympics, not Cheptegei.

The only option for Kipchoge is Marathon GOAT. For the distance there are better challengers.

Just because some guy came along and got cheater shoes, cheater light and the froome_wiggins_farah secret cocktail and runs faster than bekele doesn't mean anything

Bekele has the WR as far as I am concerned

Dennis has the WR. The rest of these guys have been wearing floaty swimsuits or whatever.

Passant wrote:

Kenenisa Bekele was beaten two times by El G. and at his peak.

Yeah getting beaten by the fastest dirty Moroccan miler in history during a 13:15 championship race is totally disqualifying for Bekele.

Kipchoge beat them both in '03 (after Bekele's obscene 10,000 finish) before embarking on an impressive track career... where he was routinely and thoroughly obliterated by "post-peak" Bekele. Kipchoge didn't do a whole lot in cross country after winning World Juniors.

Where the hell was "breakthrough 18-year old 5,000m phenom 12:52 Championship-form" Kipchoge for the rest of these races?

Scott's thots wrote:

Just because some guy came along and got cheater shoes, cheater light and the froome_wiggins_farah secret cocktail and runs faster than bekele doesn't mean anything

Bekele has the WR as far as I am concerned

It wasn't even fun to watch Cheptegei's time trials. Zero suspense. There isn't that unknown territory factor of being out there alone in deep water racing the clock. Trying to focus on the pace but incorporating splits when you get them each lap or perhaps every 200m, at best. There is a lot of no-man's land between those intervals to make a mistake that would be difficult to correct.

"Oh look, he's running perfect pace. You can instantaneously by the lights."

Phil Ken Sebben wrote:

Passant wrote:

Kenenisa Bekele was beaten two times by El G. and at his peak.

Yeah getting beaten by the fastest dirty Moroccan miler in history during a 13:15 championship race is totally disqualifying for Bekele.

Kipchoge beat them both in '03 (after Bekele's obscene 10,000 finish) before embarking on an impressive track career... where he was routinely and thoroughly obliterated by "post-peak" Bekele. Kipchoge didn't do a whole lot in cross country after winning World Juniors.

Where the hell was "breakthrough 18-year old 5,000m phenom 12:52 Championship-form" Kipchoge for the rest of these races?

I think it was mostly there, Bekele just improved from there and was also tired post 10k in 2003 (though Kipchoge would’ve probably beaten him either way). Remember Kipchoge almost ran down Lagat in 07, and had a super fast 2 mile indoors around 2011 and a very fast 3k outdoors the same year. But again Bekele improved a bit, and Kipchoge might’ve lost a tiny bit of raw speed as he aged + didn’t realize he would be the GOAT marathoner (probably would’ve run in the 26:20s if he did / focused on the 10k more). All that said hard to argue Kipchoge had a better track career than Bekele. That he’s now the clear marathon GOAT and has even called into question KB’s overall GOAT status is a huge accomplishment (and this is coming from someone who is a huge fan of both but especially EK).

No way, if anyone can challenge Bekele for the GOAT status it's Haile, with his big pitch being by just how much he lowered the records and therefore went way beyond the realm for what was considered possible. It's just undeniable that shoes and pacing lights help a lot, and considering Bekeles list of accomplishments which still completely destroys the resume of Kipchoge, the marathon king will have to settle for third in the distance running GOAT debate.

I typically agree with your thoughtful analysis but I don’t agree in this case. Even if Kipchoge wins gold in Tokyo, he still is worse than Bekele in nearly every important metric. Assuming he wins gold this is how they stack up:

Olympic Medals:

Bekele-4 (3 golds, 1 silver)

Kipchoge-4 (2 golds, 1 silver, 1 bronze)

Advantage: Bekele slightly

WC Medals:

Bekele-6 (5 golds, 1 bronze)

Kipchoge-2 (1 gold, 1 silver)

Advantage: Bekele

World XC Senior Medals:

Bekele-12 (11 golds, 1 silver)

Kipchoge-0 (1 gold in the junior race)

Advantage: Bekele

World Outdoor Records set:

Bekele-3 (5k, 10k twice, both since broken)

Kipchoge-1 (Marathon, still standing)

Advantage: Bekele slightly

PBs:

Bekele-7:25,12:37,26:17,60:09,2:01:41

Kipchoge-7:27,12:46,26:49,59:25,2:01:39

Advantage: Bekele slightly

World Marathon Major wins:

Bekele-2 (2016 Berlin, 2019 Berlin)

Kipchoge-8 (2014 Chicago, 2015 Berlin, 2015 London, 2016 London, 2017 Berlin, 2018 London, 2018 Berlin, 2019 London)

Advantage: Kipchoge

Longevity (# of years between first and last WC/Oly medal)

Bekele-6 years (2003-2009)

Kipchoge-18 years (2003-2021)

Advantage: Kipchoge

The only real case to be made for Kipchoge’s GOAT status is his number of world marathon majors and his longevity. Any other metric of greatness and Bekele is better. Not trying to discredit Kipchoge at all, he’s had an amazing career and deserves a mention among the all time greats, but for now King Kenenisa is still the greatest.

If you’re going off of world gold medals why isn’t Farah you’re distance running goat?

You're right that the talent and ability were likely there, but the "inconsistency" (for lack of a better word) between his breakout performance and when he finally decided to move to the roads is hard to reconcile when the overall GOAT was able to dominate two surfaces and then likely put the fear of God into Kipchoge when he was able to string health and motivation together for the road. Kipchoge himself admits to grappling with nerves before competition. It seems in the marathon he is able to put in the work to be in a class of his own, and so be removed from threats by simply outrunning everyone else. Kenenisa would have threatened that "peaceful" dominance, but he didn't.

You raise an interesting point about Kipchoge possibly searching for a niche. One that he has absolutely found. He had the ability no doubt, but the prospect of chasing (former top) milers in the 5,000 (nevermind Kenenisa...) for medals or killing yourself to try and break the master breaker in the second half of a 10,000 might have ushered in some deep reflection on Kipchoge's part.

+1

Kipchoge has redefined what is possible on the roads. I don't think anyone can doubt that. The problem he faces in this discussion is a lack of well-roundedness. (Can't believe I typed that because of his ability, but it is true.)

Geb is GOAT followed by El G followed by Bekele.

Learn the sport, JWH.

They're a factor in his calculus, smooth-brain, not the end-all be-all. Because 12:53 and 26:46 ain't getting it done.

Go make a Farah thread.