33 year old from Panama, with 1:09:46 half marathon pb, runs 2:09:49 marathon with super shoes

"After training for an additional 10 years, and running thousands of additional miles, 1:09 marathoner runs 2:09."

distancerunningwizard wrote:

Thank you!!! I'm so sick of people talking about these shoes! He worked hard! Thats why he ran great!!

How do you know what he did?

I dont think you get the difference between 1.09 and 2.09. There are women who can run a half faster than he did. Much faster. But 2.09 is a whole other level of ability. It isn't just training and shoes that will do that.

I know what you’re thinking and it seems logical to think that he might be taking something “special” as it were, but I don’t think he is. These super shoes are really absolutely incredible and people talk about a five minute advantage over the marathon but I’m thinking possibly even more. In addition, people who train in the shoes are able to maintain muscle integrity and avoid break down so it has a double advantage of fact for training and racing if you can afford the shoes or are sponsored to wear them.

I can only imagine what you would write about Jack Foster if he somehow started his running career in our days.

Must be boring to not see atheletes, only shoes and doping.

Darby wrote:

I can only imagine what you would write about Jack Foster if he somehow started his running career in our days.

Must be boring to not see atheletes, only shoes and doping.

Not everybody was Jack Foster. But today it seems they are.

Jesus Christ man I get the difference in running times, I'm just not here to attribute it all to the shoes and know how to read a progression over several years. He ran 2:15/2:16 without super shoes after having PBs of 1:09/2:32 that line up decently well. So when he ran 2:15, he obviously wasn't a 1:09 half marathoner even if he didn't race one at the time. He did not have a 1:09 half pb when he ran 2:09.

He trained for 5 years & went from 2:15 to 2:09. He ran that in Valencia, which had pacers, good weather, and an incredibly deep field. He went for it, and popped off a 2:09. How much of that goes to the shoes? The same thing people have actually laid out -- 1:00-2:00 range. Putting on super shoes, alone, didn't get him the 6 minutes.

My point is that I think the shoes help more than doping and of course the shoes and their new technology are perfectly legal so there’s nothing wrong with that. The only point of regret that I have is that the old time marathon runners from 30 years ago who were running 2:09-2:11 in slippers, fit for your kitchen duties, have had their times somewhat devalued by the plethora of sub 2:10 marathon runners these days, but that is the price we pay for “progress.“

I was going to reply sincerely but now I’m know you’re a Herc Wimbledon athlete it makes sense. Tinpot club anyway.

Didn’t one of your runners get popped for EPO 2.5 years ago? He did. Belal Ahmed. Pathetic.

Try justifying that before smearing the names of other athletes with zero proof.

Armstronglivs wrote:

Darby wrote:

I can only imagine what you would write about Jack Foster if he somehow started his running career in our days.

Must be boring to not see atheletes, only shoes and doping.

Not everybody was Jack Foster. But today it seems they are.

Well, guys racing seriously at forty and beyond was a rarity in Jack's era. It's quite common now so you'd expect to see a lot more "Jack Fosters" now.

I saw a podcast where Mara Yamaguchi said she thought for some the shoes might give 10% improvement and for others maybe more like 2%.

This is a terrible arguement - the HM he ran was almost a decade ago.

Where is the proof that he hasn't been training his gut out to run 2:09. Yes the 69min HM doesn't equate to 2:09, but consider they're 9 years apart. That's 9 years more experience, 9 years more training.

You don't know any of his training for either event, who knows, in 2009 he may have been on 80mpw as a sub elite. He's had the whole of 2020 with nothing to focus on in the immeadiate future, so that would have built up nicely for a December Marathon.

Saying it was solely the shoes is a completly flawed argument - give the man some credit for the extra training he most likely put in and end this stupid arguement that the shoes make the average Joe a world class runner.

If you've ever run in these shoes you'll know they don't ever stop you having a bad day. They need to be paired with years of hard work for results to be produced.

I am not suggesting that the Panamanian athlete doped - far from it. Just suggesting that the shoes play a big part in (legal) improvement for most to run with super shoes.

Just look at that race in Japan back in February where you had 50 runners (super shoes) or so running super times under 210.. Kawauchi, 2:07, well past his best.... Just saying..

Or EPO?

coW2 wrote:

Or EPO?

Just because you would need EPO to run fast it doesn't mean everybody is as slow as you.

Darby wrote:

I can only imagine what you would write about Jack Foster if he somehow started his running career in our days.

Must be boring to not see athletes, only shoes and doping.

ya, i saw jack foster live in cross country, he was about 48 years old, and was absolutely kicking ass. he vaulted over the hurdles like a gazelle, putting us boys to absolute shame.

jack's training should be examined, it's very good, in the "low" mileages, the bit of cross fit training etc. he's the model of longevity and connecting to your body.

with that said, readers don't know that jack was in the top 5 in the world in the marathon at age 41, won commonwealth silver, at a time it was competitive. 6th in new york at age 45.

and that jack started running in his early thirties, and took about 6 years to get to peak.

if you factor in the berlin marathon effect (perfect course), at 2 minutes, and the shoes at 2 minutes, you have jack at 206 low, at age 41.

let's make no mistake however, that this is 5 minutes slower than kip under the same conditions.

that is more than a mile.

you can speculate further from there. drugs/age/etc.

however, despite the advantages of the east Africans in body, lifestyle, training, culture, anyone can compete.

at the end of the day, seeing great runners up close and personal, only a couple jump off the page immediately, and jack was one of the rare few.

===========

retarding the panama guy that just ran 209, that's very weird, and i was about to defend the reduction in time through research, you can throw out 10 year old half times, that's a gimme.

then you can account for an improvement of 4 minutes, with shoes and a better course, and you can bring your A game and hit the jack pot.

then i saw he has been in europe for many years, and probably mixing with the spanish, and such,\

which means he's got access to the drugs.

so this dude must have testing results to validate the 209.

easier for him to be tested moving forward and run another, then its legit.

otherwise, the 209 has to be non-certified

Foster's Lager wrote:

Armstronglivs wrote:

Not everybody was Jack Foster. But today it seems they are.

Well, guys racing seriously at forty and beyond was a rarity in Jack's era. It's quite common now so you'd expect to see a lot more "Jack Fosters" now.

Another of the advantages of doping. And TRT.

Doping still gives bigger gains than the shoes. If it weren't so, the shoes would be banned.

ImpaIa31 wrote:

coW2 wrote:

Or EPO?

Just because you would need EPO to run fast it doesn't mean everybody is as slow as you.

Yet a lot of top Kenyans are on it.